liandconsmum's UE Diary

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: liandconsmum's UE Diary

What exactly, in laymans terms, does constitute a dispute? Are we talking about a case where one side thinks the interest was x% and the other thinks it was y% so the APR is "disputed" and things like that, or is it something else?

I class this as similar to my HSBC problem, basically I was a normal customer doing nothing wrong and then I got a letter closing all my accounts, within 28 days when they knew I was out the country thus allowing only 14 days. As such, my whole account is now in dispute because they have allowed a dispute based on it not being a one sided opinion.

In your example, that would not be a dispute, because you would have agreed to the terms and/or been told they were variable. A genuine dispute can be classed as when something has happened that was out of the terms of the agreement that has affected one side of the parties by the actions of the other.

So, lets say your bank suddenly say they want to claim back 50% of your card repayment each month, and give you enough notice, if their terms say they can do this they can - no recourse for a dispute. If however they suddenly added historic interest from inception as they'd charged it wrong for all those years, you could then dispute it as this would be a genuine dispute.

CCA disputes only mean "you" dispute the legality of the enforcement of the debt; you're not disputing the debt itself or its existence.

Well, that is my view anyway!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: liandconsmum's UE Diary

Niddy - just a brief question re the MBNA account mentioned above. When the account was owned by MBNA, we did a CCA request (July 2010 - almost a year ago today) and got an application form one back with incomplete T&C. The DCA, however, purchased the debt, even though it was already in dispute over this. I'm curious - would we be within our rights to do another CCA request to the DCA that now owns the account to see what comes back? This DCA wasn't involved when we did our original CCA request - I'm sure they'll look at it as stalling, but I want to be sure of what they have (and don't have).

or is it just pointless?

You can do a new CCA at any point, so long as you pay the £1 statutory fee - usually you can do one per annum as per a SAR.

Yes, feel free to resend one but why bother, if the original is in default then you've agreed to repay a tenner a month they will just fob you off - think about it

[caspar]

Re: liandconsmum's UE Diary

be careful there when using the "dispute" word, the courts will not agree with you on that.

Paul or anyone else who knows the answer - I am fully aware that non compliance with a s78 request does not constitute a dispute in the eyes of a court, it does, to my understanding mean they cannot continue enforcement action while they cannot comply.

I'm also aware that continuing enforcement action does not mean they can't stop asking asking you to pay your debt.

What exactly, in laymans terms, does constitute a dispute? Are we talking about a case where one side thinks the interest was x% and the other thinks it was y% so the APR is "disputed" and things like that, or is it something else?

[liandconsmum]

Re: liandconsmum's UE Diary

Paul - thanks. We'll send a CCA request as well as the above letter, and then determine where we go from there based on their CCA response. If nothing else, as you say, it provides more information.

[Paul.]

Re: liandconsmum's UE Diary

theres nothing to stop you making a further request.

In fact it gives you more evidence incase you need to refer to this in any claim.

There is nothing to stop the account being sold, contrary to popular belief non compliance with a s78 request does not give rise to a dispute as to the underlying debt, so id be careful there when using the "dispute" word, the courts will not agree with you on that.

Also a s78 request can be put right at any time up to judgment,

See the Court of Appeal ruling in Kotecha vs Phoenix

[liandconsmum]

Re: liandconsmum's UE Diary

Niddy - just a brief question re the MBNA account mentioned above. When the account was owned by MBNA, we did a CCA request (July 2010 - almost a year ago today) and got an application form one back with incomplete T&C. The DCA, however, purchased the debt, even though it was already in dispute over this. I'm curious - would we be within our rights to do another CCA request to the DCA that now owns the account to see what comes back? This DCA wasn't involved when we did our original CCA request - I'm sure they'll look at it as stalling, but I want to be sure of what they have (and don't have).

or is it just pointless?

[liandconsmum]

Re: liandconsmum's UE Diary

MBNA/Experto Credite - We went rather middle of the road with the letter to them. DH is happy to pay the £10 per month, however, I note that the CCA is technically UE. So rather than hand it completely over to them, we sent this:

I am in receipt of your letter offering an instalment plan of £10.00 per month, free of any interest charges. As I have not yet received complete information to my original CCA request of 23 July 2010 regarding this account, I feel that this is the best option until that particular dispute has been resolved.

I will therefore set up a standing order for the £10.00 payment to be distributed on the 15th of each month, beginning in August 2011. If for some reason it does not go through, please let me know by post immediately.

DH is happy because we're paying what they want (which ironically is lower than what we initially were paying them ) but it's a slight shot across the bow to point out that while we're paying them, we're still aware that it's UE, and if they try to haul us into court, we'll not be so cooperative. A bit of a compromise that we can live with. To be fair, we have an enforceable account at the same DCA that we're paying on, and this keeps things relatively amenable for both, plus is affordable. We've got other accounts we can focus on.


Tesco - we went with short and sweet on this one as well. Honestly, I am tired of burning through ink and paper on long letters when they've received them all before. If this new DCA has received the full file on this account, it'll have all the previous info in it. If not, they can bl well request it themselves from the previous DCA or original creditor. So I sent them this:

Please note that the above account is currently in dispute with the original creditors, and as such should be returned to them to be resolved.

I will let them chew on that a bit and see what their response is. I can always go for the longer letter next if need be. But we've dealt with this DCA on other accounts previously, so I imagine we'll see a raft of letters from them as we go along anyway.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: liandconsmum's UE Diary

Another day, another nonsense letter from a DCA.

Tesco - letter from Wescot received today re this account. I will send them the appropriate "hello, this account is in dispute" letter. We've gone around with them before on this account, so it's not news to them.

Yep - do that, best of luck

[liandconsmum]

Re: liandconsmum's UE Diary

Another day, another nonsense letter from a DCA.

Tesco - letter from Wescot received today re this account. I will send them the appropriate "hello, this account is in dispute" letter. We've gone around with them before on this account, so it's not news to them.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: liandconsmum's UE Diary

Well, £10 per month on a £9K debt means in 40 years (when we're 85), we will barely have paid half. LOL And it says it would remain interest free.

There you go then, it's only a tenner and so long as you won't miss it just consign yourself to the fact that you'll probably be long gone before they get paid thus you win anyway

You could look at paying it and try the CCA router again in a year - ie start from scratch again just to see what they do have and this will not only buy more time but allow you peace on that account for at least the next few months.... its a weird one that only you can answer, as to what would be best...

But seriously, have a good long think and let us know whatever you may decide....

[liandconsmum]

Re: liandconsmum's UE Diary

Well, £10 per month on a £9K debt means in 40 years (when we're 85), we will barely have paid half. LOL And it says it would remain interest free.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: liandconsmum's UE Diary

Paul - yes, that is why I'm going to review it. I want to see specifically what it is that makes it UE. The other accounts have huge glaring things (no CCA at all, 2 different CCAs, completely different sets of T&Cs, and so on), so he's more comfortable continuing the UE route with them.

He's still up in the air on the Paypal Santander, but I think leaning towards a decision. I'm just not sure what decision. (I hate not knowing what he is thinking.. grumble grumble... control freak? me?? LOL)

I think he's looking at keeping stress level, and picking and choosing what he's willing to fight through in court. If he's looking out for his stress and mental health, I'm not going to complain. No point being sectioned over it.

Well for the sake of £10 per month, to avoid the hassle and stress just pay the £10.... you know (from other accounts) that it'll cause stress and hassle, they won't back down - i'll not lie.

So yea, he needs to have a good long think, I can see both sides of things but ultimately it is up to you guys what you do..... and I guess if £10 keeps you both sane, it could well be seen as cash well spent!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: liandconsmum's UE Diary

It is only unenforceable for sure when the court makes such a declaration

Exactly, we can only advise whether it stands any chance or not, based on what we see.

However, totally agree - a judge can declare it irredeemably unenforceable, otherwise the lender can (and will) actively pursue it...... That's not what i'm saying here though, I'm simply saying if they messed up originally then you do have some fight - its obviously up to the specific user what and how they deal with such a fight

[Paul.]

Re: liandconsmum's UE Diary

It is only unenforceable for sure when the court makes such a declaration

you must always remember that

[liandconsmum]

Re: liandconsmum's UE Diary

I'm going to take the next couple days to review the entire MBNA file and type up a chronological sheet on it. Then let DH look it over once more before a final decision. That way we know he's thinking it all through thoroughly. I myself just want to review what in particular is UE on it.