cardio's Diary

[cardiac arrest]

Re: cardio's Diary

17 Aug 2012 ~ sent letter to DCA for details to substantiate their legality to claim
3 Sep 2012 ~ sent CCA letters with £1 to OC and DCA, recorded delivery
28 Sep 2012 ~ sent 2nd CCA letters to OC and DCA asking for same; Rec Del
18 Oct 2012 ~ sent 3rd CCA letters to OC and DCA stating unenforceable due to not complying with CCA requests; Rec Delivery
23 Oct 2012 ~ reply from DCA with poor copy of an application form and something like a copy of an agreement between them and the OC regarding buying debts..."apology for delay we have been sending replies to your old address, here are the copies. We trust this now resolves the matter."
2 Nov 2012, emailed above to Niddy for advice on compliance
4 Nov 2012. reply from Niddy... Unenforceable !!
5 Nov 2012 ~ Sent letter to DCA asking for them to prove their legal interest in the account to establish their rights to communicate with me on this matter (Notice of assignment/Deed of assignment) before I discuss the matter further.
5 Nov ~ ...call on my mobile phone from OC !!! didn't answer but they sent me a text then and asked my to phone them...Blimey Crikey..somethings happening. This is despite my previous instruction that all communication should be in writing only
6 Nov 2012 ~ Another call from OC..suspect this might be to do with my reclaim for charges /fees which is now with FOS...didn't answer...let them put anything in writing.
7 Nov 2012 ~ Sent Niddy's template 'Missing Prescribed terms', to DCA registered post
7 Nov 2012 ~ Rec'd reply from OC re unfair interest and fees applied, claim first made back in Jan 2008, OC agreed to deduct from account balance within 40 days by advising DCA
9 Nov 2012 ~ Sent email to OC to a) query refund being made directly to the DCA b) query why claim for statutory interest has been deducted from claim and c) to state 'compensation' of £100 is derisory. Also informed OC that the case has been referred to FOS, including a copy of their offer and my reply to them.
10 Nov 2012 ~ Forwarded copy of OC's 'offer to settle' and copy of my email to OC to FOS, as FOS asked to be kept updated of any subsequent 'events'. Advised by FOS case is not yet allocated to adjudicator.
15 Nov 2012 ~ Letter received from DLC. responds as follows 1) enclosed is copy of sale agreement between Hillesden and HBOS, we are unable to provide a full copy due to sensitive data, but we will to a judge if required in Court.(and they've attached a copy of an agreement between them and the Automobile Association !)..wtf ! 2)sole purpose is to prove we acquired a batch of accounts, yours included, it will not contain info specific to your agreement. 3)Please find recreated notice of assignment letter sent to wrong address on 31 December 2009. 4) We disagree we have failed to comply with CCA regs, as we hold no record of any CCA request from you....(I've got 4 recorded delivery receipts from them for CCA requests).
16 Nov 2012 ~ Reply from DCA to Niddy's letter. " As the account does not relate to a fixed term agreement, the prescribed terms are not required to be on the face of the agreement". "Any amendments made to CCA 1974 after the agreement was signed would have no legal bearing on its enforceability; consequently as the amendment made to the 1974 Act regarding prescribed terms was not introduced until 2006, this section of the Act would not apply to your agreement". "We have referred back to the original lender for an improved copy of the agreement " (that was the application form they sent me)
21 Nov 2012 ~ Reply from Sainsbury's re refund of charges received. State they have option to buy back part of debt from DLC so will refund charges etc via that method rather than refund directly to me. The FOS are still to rule on the matter though, however long that takes.


Am still sitting tight awaiting response to my request for a legible copy of the agreement.

[cardiac arrest]

Re: cardio's Diary

If absolute they MUST refund you directly as the account has nothing to do with them.

Okay, so i wrote and made this point to Sainsbury's Bank and have today received their reply..

"As we sold this debt to DLC, we have the option to buy back part of this debt, if we require to. Once received, this allows us to pay off part of the balance. As we've(sic) not requesting any specific information in regards to your account and are only requesting to buy back part of the debt, we're not breaching the Data Protection Act."


Not what I was hoping for, but it would perhaps be churlish of me not to still think an £1,100 reduction in my outstanding balance isn't some sort of victory.

It does leave the 'issue' though, that had these unwarranted charges not been made back in 2007/8 then I would not have been over my credit limit...although I accept the default was more to do with not paying the 'contractual' amounts maybe.

Should I leave it at that now ?

[cardiac arrest]

Re: cardio's Diary

After the letter from the DCA yesterday I am inclined to sit tight perhaps until they produce a legible copy of the Application form. Funny how the day before the DCA were saying they had not received any CCA request from me... I was wondering though at what point an application form becomes an Agreement , as it seems from Carey that they can be the same document ?

[cardiac arrest]

Re: cardio's Diary

17 Aug 2012 ~ sent letter to DCA for details to substantiate their legality to claim
3 Sep 2012 ~ sent CCA letters with £1 to OC and DCA, recorded delivery
28 Sep 2012 ~ sent 2nd CCA letters to OC and DCA asking for same; Rec Del
18 Oct 2012 ~ sent 3rd CCA letters to OC and DCA stating unenforceable due to not complying with CCA requests; Rec Delivery
23 Oct 2012 ~ reply from DCA with poor copy of an application form and something like a copy of an agreement between them and the OC regarding buying debts..."apology for delay we have been sending replies to your old address, here are the copies. We trust this now resolves the matter."
2 Nov 2012, emailed above to Niddy for advice on compliance
4 Nov 2012. reply from Niddy... Unenforceable !!
5 Nov 2012 ~ Sent letter to DCA asking for them to prove their legal interest in the account to establish their rights to communicate with me on this matter (Notice of assignment/Deed of assignment) before I discuss the matter further.
5 Nov ~ ...call on my mobile phone from OC !!! didn't answer but they sent me a text then and asked my to phone them...Blimey Crikey..somethings happening. This is despite my previous instruction that all communication should be in writing only
6 Nov 2012 ~ Another call from OC..suspect this might be to do with my reclaim for charges /fees which is now with FOS...didn't answer...let them put anything in writing.
7 Nov 2012 ~ Sent Niddy's template 'Missing Prescribed terms', to DCA registered post
7 Nov 2012 ~ Rec'd reply from OC re unfair interest and fees applied, claim first made back in Jan 2008, OC agreed to deduct from account balance within 40 days by advising DCA
9 Nov 2012 ~ Sent email to OC to a) query refund being made directly to the DCA b) query why claim for statutory interest has been deducted from claim and c) to state 'compensation' of £100 is derisory. Also informed OC that the case has been referred to FOS, including a copy of their offer and my reply to them.
10 Nov 2012 ~ Forwarded copy of OC's 'offer to settle' and copy of my email to OC to FOS, as FOS asked to be kept updated of any subsequent 'events'. Advised by FOS case is not yet allocated to adjudicator.
15 Nov 2012 ~ Letter received from DLC. responds as follows 1) enclosed is copy of sale agreement between Hillesden and HBOS, we are unable to provide a full copy due to sensitive data, but we will to a judge if required in Court.(and they've attached a copy of an agreement between them and the Automobile Association !)..wtf ! 2)sole purpose is to prove we acquired a batch of accounts, yours included, it will not contain info specific to your agreement. 3)Please find recreated notice of assignment letter sent to wrong address on 31 December 2009. 4) We disagree we have failed to comply with CCA regs, as we hold no record of any CCA request from you....(I've got 4 recorded delivery receipts from them for CCA requests).
16 Nov 2012 ~ Reply from DCA to Niddy's letter. " As the account does not relate to a fixed term agreement, the prescribed terms are not required to be on the face of the agreement". "Any amendments made to CCA 1974 after the agreement was signed would have no legal bearing on its enforceability; consequently as the amendment made to the 1974 Act regarding prescribed terms was not introduced until 2006, this section of the Act would not apply to your agreement". "We have referred back to the original lender for an improved copy of the agreement " (that was the application form they sent me)



Niddy, what are they on about ?

[cardiac arrest]

Re: cardio's Diary

If absolute they MUST refund you directly as the account has nothing to do with them.

Thanks Niddy, that's where I was going next..I emailed the OC last week , as stated, but no response yet...so I re-sent the email today and asked for a confirmation of receipt, which i received immediately from a secretary...

As far as the DCA...do you think they are just holding while they have a think what to do next...I mean, 4 recorded delivery letters....all signed for... and I paid them £1...

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: cardio's Diary

If absolute they MUST refund you directly as the account has nothing to do with them.

[cardiac arrest]

Re: cardio's Diary

I'm just reading the 'notice of assignment' letter dated 31 December 2009, sent to me today by the DCA. It is signed by HBOS but has a DLC header...but I'm trying to ascertain if this states it is an equitable or a 'legal' assignment. This is what it says..

"We are writing to notify you that HBOS has assigned all of its respective rights, title and interest in respect of the above referenced account (including the outstanding balance) to Hillesden Securities effective 19/06/08."

Another copy letter, just received today, dated the same date, but from DLC (Hillesden) states.."This debt has been assigned to DLC....this means that HBOS no longer own your account and your account is now owned by DLC.."



What type of assignment is this ?

[cardiac arrest]

Re: cardio's Diary

17 Aug 2012 ~ sent letter to DCA for details to substantiate their legality to claim
3 Sep 2012 ~ sent CCA letters with £1 to OC and DCA, recorded delivery
28 Sep 2012 ~ sent 2nd CCA letters to OC and DCA asking for same; Rec Del
18 Oct 2012 ~ sent 3rd CCA letters to OC and DCA stating unenforceable due to not complying with CCA requests; Rec Delivery
23 Oct 2012 ~ reply from DCA with poor copy of an application form and something like a copy of an agreement between them and the OC regarding buying debts..."apology for delay we have been sending replies to your old address, here are the copies. We trust this now resolves the matter."
2 Nov 2012, emailed above to Niddy for advice on compliance
4 Nov 2012. reply from Niddy... Unenforceable !!
5 Nov 2012 ~ Sent letter to DCA asking for them to prove their legal interest in the account to establish their rights to communicate with me on this matter (Notice of assignment/Deed of assignment) before I discuss the matter further.
5 Nov ~ ...call on my mobile phone from OC !!! didn't answer but they sent me a text then and asked my to phone them...Blimey Crikey..somethings happening. This is despite my previous instruction that all communication should be in writing only
6 Nov 2012 ~ Another call from OC..suspect this might be to do with my reclaim for charges /fees which is now with FOS...didn't answer...let them put anything in writing.
7 Nov 2012 ~ Sent Niddy's template 'Missing Prescribed terms', to DCA registered post
7 Nov 2012 ~ Rec'd reply from OC re unfair interest and fees applied, claim first made back in Jan 2008, OC agreed to deduct from account balance within 40 days by advising DCA
9 Nov 2012 ~ Sent email to OC to a) query refund being made directly to the DCA b) query why claim for statutory interest has been deducted from claim and c) to state 'compensation' of £100 is derisory. Also informed OC that the case has been referred to FOS, including a copy of their offer and my reply to them.
10 Nov 2012 ~ Forwarded copy of OC's 'offer to settle' and copy of my email to OC to FOS, as FOS asked to be kept updated of any subsequent 'events'. Advised by FOS case is not yet allocated to adjudicator.
15 Nov 2012 ~ Letter received from DLC. responds as follows 1) enclosed is copy of sale agreement between Hillesden and HBOS, we are unable to provide a full copy due to sensitive data, but we will to a judge if required in Court.(and they've attached a copy of an agreement between them and the Automobile Association !)..wtf ! 2)sole purpose is to prove we acquired a batch of accounts, yours included, it will not contain info specific to your agreement. 3)Please find recreated notice of assignment letter sent to wrong address on 31 December 2009. 4) We disagree we have failed to comply with CCA regs, as we hold no record of any CCA request from you....(I've got 4 recorded delivery receipts from them for CCA requests).

You couldn't make it up could you...What should I do now, just ignore them ?

[cardiac arrest]

Re: cardio's Diary

17 Aug 2012 ~ sent letter to DCA for details to substantiate their legality to claim
3 Sep 2012 ~ sent CCA letters with £1 to OC and DCA, recorded delivery
28 Sep 2012 ~ sent 2nd CCA letters to OC and DCA asking for same; Rec Del
18 Oct 2012 ~ sent 3rd CCA letters to OC and DCA stating unenforceable due to not complying with CCA requests; Rec Delivery
23 Oct 2012 ~ reply from DCA with poor copy of an application form and something like a copy of an agreement between them and the OC regarding buying debts..."apology for delay we have been sending replies to your old address, here are the copies. We trust this now resolves the matter."
2 Nov 2012, emailed above to Niddy for advice on compliance
4 Nov 2012. reply from Niddy... Unenforceable !!
5 Nov 2012 ~ Sent letter to DCA asking for them to prove their legal interest in the account to establish their rights to communicate with me on this matter (Notice of assignment/Deed of assignment) before I discuss the matter further.
5 Nov ~ ...call on my mobile phone from OC !!! didn't answer but they sent me a text then and asked my to phone them...Blimey Crikey..somethings happening. This is despite my previous instruction that all communication should be in writing only
6 Nov 2012 ~ Another call from OC..suspect this might be to do with my reclaim for charges /fees which is now with FOS...didn't answer...let them put anything in writing.
7 Nov 2012 ~ Sent Niddy's template 'Missing Prescribed terms', to DCA registered post
7 Nov 2012 ~ Rec'd reply from OC re unfair interest and fees applied, claim first made back in Jan 2008, OC agreed to deduct from account balance within 40 days by advising DCA
9 Nov 2012 ~ Sent email to OC to a) query refund being made directly to the DCA b) query why claim for statutory interest has been deducted from claim and c) to state 'compensation' of £100 is derisory. Also informed OC that the case has been referred to FOS, including a copy of their offer and my reply to them.
10 Nov 2012 ~ Forwarded copy of OC's 'offer to settle' and copy of my email to OC to FOS, as FOS asked to be kept updated of any subsequent 'events'. Advised by FOS case is not yet allocated to adjudicator.

Situation now is I am waiting for DCA to respond to both my original letter asking them to prove their interest and the template letter suggested by Niddy. The issue with the OC is a bit of a gamble, as they could withdraw their offer...but hey, you don't miss what you never had...however if by some small chance they do send me the full refund...I might just tempt the DCA into a F&F without even using my own money..in fact the OC will have paid them off...now that would be a result.

[cardiac arrest]

Re: cardio's Diary

You need to check what the legal status is. Write back and ask sainsburys (hbos) if dlc are assigned in absolute or whether they are a simple assignee.

Depends what they say; depends where you can go next.

Or just leave it and carry on with the UE element; entirely upto you really.

Thanks Niddy. I have emailed Sainsbury's Bank Customer Services (who made the 'offer') this morning and asked for clarification regarding the assigment, and raising my concerns about payment to a 3rd party. I think this issue with Sainsbury's regarding the charges is separate from the UE issue with DLC and as such I am pursuing both at the same time. Obviously the relationship between the two needs to be clarified and hopefully I will get a response today and before the bank start to take action on their letter. The FOS have this matter in hand too, although it has not been allocated to an adjudicator as yet, they said yesterday. Am hoping the bank will not want it to go through the FOS and will submit an amended offer, but who knows. Will now wait and see what happens...time for breakfast I think

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: cardio's Diary

You need to check what the legal status is. Write back and ask sainsburys (hbos) if dlc are assigned in absolute or whether they are a simple assignee.

Depends what they say; depends where you can go next.

Or just leave it and carry on with the UE element; entirely upto you really.

[cardiac arrest]

Re: cardio's Diary

Are you referring to resetting the SBd clock? If your last payment was in August this year, you don't have much to worry about in this respect. Yes I was..can you offer a F&F without admitting the debt ?..thru' a 3rd party ?
There should be 8% statutory interest.
It's interest for having had your money, not interest added to your account. thanks, although they never had my money 'cos I defaulted..

See this for reference ---> How the FOS calculates PPI refunds. - allaboutFORUMS

thank you

[ken100464]

Re: cardio's Diary

So what are you saying , I should tell the OC to send the refund directly to me and not divulge my personal data to the 3rd party ?

I would be telling OC that they have no right to offset if you are sure its an absolute assignment.

If your not sure or dont have the paperwork to back it up then a SAR is an option to find out.

Specifically ask OC for this information. They have 40 days to comply.

I have seen a few threads on the net where this very thing has happened and the OP has eventually got the money.

Just another bank scam.

Best of luck

[cardiac arrest]

Re: cardio's Diary

Shouldn't they be paying you 8.5% statutory interest on that admitted overcharged amount

I'd send a copy of that letter to the FOS so that they can do the maths and see if they agree with Sainsbury's calculations . Maybe tell Sainsbury's to hold fire until you've discussed this with the FOS

Well actually my claim did include an interest charge of £417, from the Moneysavingexpert website template,but they have deducted all that and just offered the original costs which were charged. Does it matter that in reality no actual interest was added to my account beyond May 2008, or does the 8.5% reflect lost use of the money and should this be recalculated the longer it goes on ?

[cardiac arrest]

Re: cardio's Diary

The DPA is regulated by the ICO not FOS.

By advising the DCA of personal financial matters ie that you have been given a refund how much more personal could you be. Besides the colour of ones underpants etc this shouldnt be divulged. Until the OC decided to refund you then the DCA would know nothing about this because the OC didnt know anything about it.

If its an absolute assignment they gave up their rights to offset however much they like to think they havnt. Thats a bank trying it on.

The data the DCA should have is about the debt when it was sold in absolute not anything after. Thats like them asking for your I & E. They have no right to know and if a bank/employer disclosed this sort of information without your say so then the bank/employer would be absolutely slaughtered.

Only a court can rule that you have to disclose information like this.

FOS being FOS and scratching the backs of them that fund them.

Just my two pennyworth.

So what are you saying , I should tell the OC to send the refund directly to me and not divulge my personal data to the 3rd party ?