UE Journey

[Tommy_the_cat]

Taking out a massive loan when you were financially challenged may have been the lender's responsibility too, not just your 'madness'. This issue is known are "unaffordable Lending" which is explained here on the FOS website > https://www.financial-ombudsman.org....rdable-lending


I can see from your debt history that you took out the loan in July 2018 and you had defaulted on it by May 2019 only ten months later which suggests it may not have been manageable. Were you in full employment when you took out the loan and/or was your inability to keep up the payments due to a sudden income loss such as redundancy etc?

Was paying off your other existing debts a condition of the loan at inception or weren't they (Shawbrook) aware of your financial situation because they didn't ask you at the time?

Did you have any Defaults registered on your CRA files when the application was made?

I'll probably suggest you send a Subject Access Request (GDPR) to Shawbrook in case that sheds any light on the history. And there might also be something interesting in the Communications Log about their interaction with Cabot. Don't do that until things become clearer.

Don't lose heart just yet - explore all avenues first

Di

Thanks again, Di...

The debt was certainly unaffordable but the lender did not know this and (to my memory) did not assess my income and expenditure during the application process (and paying off existing debts was not a condition). I was in full time employment when I took out the loan, but our household income was lower due to my partner being on maternity leave.

No defaults registered when the application was made.

So, do you suggest sending the SAR now, or waiting for a bit?

Thanks

[Roger]

Shawcross and a consolidation of various and different Cards/Loans and Shawcross knew this and where aware the previous Debts?
And it was Shawcross that offered this UNSECURED Loan?

1/ A SAR to Shawcross would make sense at this moment!

2/ Also you need to dig out the details on those old debts!

3/ The AAD response to a CCA S.78 documents being sent is do nothing! Sit on your Hands and report back here whatever Cabot's next move is!

[PlanB]

It was a debt consolidation loan. This was my last attempt to avoid going under and defaulting on all my other loans/cards. Obviously, in hindsight, taking out a massive loan to pay other loans was madness.

- I made the application direct to Shawbrook

Taking out a massive loan when you were financially challenged may have been the lender's responsibility too, not just your 'madness'. This issue is known are "unaffordable Lending" which is explained here on the FOS website > https://www.financial-ombudsman.org....rdable-lending


I can see from your debt history that you took out the loan in July 2018 and you had defaulted on it by May 2019 only ten months later which suggests it may not have been manageable. Were you in full employment when you took out the loan and/or was your inability to keep up the payments due to a sudden income loss such as redundancy etc?

Was paying off your other existing debts a condition of the loan at inception or weren't they (Shawbrook) aware of your financial situation because they didn't ask you at the time?

Did you have any Defaults registered on your CRA files when the application was made?

I'll probably suggest you send a Subject Access Request (GDPR) to Shawbrook in case that sheds any light on the history. And there might also be something interesting in the Communications Log about their interaction with Cabot. Don't do that until things become clearer.

Don't lose heart just yet - explore all avenues first

Di

[Tommy_the_cat]

There's more to enforceability than just the credit agreement so wait to see what Niddy says but you should look at this debt in a 'holistic' way so things can be put in context.

What was the purpose of this loan, such as consolidation or business etc?

Did you apply for the loan direct to Shawbrook or was it arranged through a broker or intermediary of some sort?

Which Cabot is currently the owner e.g. Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd or another 'Cabot' ?

Di

Hi Di, and thanks for your swift answer.

AS you will have seen from my last post, Niddy considers this debt to be enforceable. So I'm now looking for my next move....

To answer your questions:

- It was a debt consolidation loan. This was my last attempt to avoid going under and defaulting on all my other loans/cards. Obviously, in hindsight, taking out a massive loan to pay other loans was madness.

- I made the application direct to Shawbrook

- The letter is headed up Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd.... And it says at the bottom that "Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited is an Appointed Representative of Cabot Credit Management Group which is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority with firm reference number 677910"

[Tommy_the_cat]

Name	Shawbrook
Type of Account	Loan
Date Commenced	July 2018
Date Defaulted	May 2019
Approx Balance	£23,000
Account Owner	Cabot
Arrangement/Not paying	Not paying
Last Date paid	March 2021

1. Early Feb - CCA Request sent to Cabot
2. 26 Feb 21 - Response from Cabot - Need 12 days
3. 11 Mar 21 - Response from Cabot - Still Processing (Account unenforceable)
4. 07 May 21 - I made a F&F offer of £600
5. 14 May 21 - Offer Rejected and counter made of £18k
6. 24 Jun 21 - Received a wad of papers from Cabot and a letter saying that they now consider the account enforceable and that they are now entitled to obtain a CCJ against me. Sent to Webmaster for UE check
7. Niddy has reviewed the documentation and considers it to be enforceable

Bad news. Considered to be enforceable by Niddy. I'm now considering my next move. What is the best path to take? Do I make a payment arrangement now, or hold out for a bit? I'm a bit lost on this one. Thanks

[PlanB]

Cabot have sent to me what seems to be all the relevant information and documentation. Sent to Niddy for review.

There's more to enforceability than just the credit agreement so wait to see what Niddy says but you should look at this debt in a 'holistic' way so things can be put in context.

What was the purpose of this loan, such as consolidation or business etc?

Did you apply for the loan direct to Shawbrook or was it arranged through a broker or intermediary of some sort?

Which Cabot is currently the owner e.g. Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd or another 'Cabot' ?

Di

[ca71]

Could be deemed to be UE. Plus, as Di says, there are may other components to a successful claim by a DCA. Need your poker face on.

[Tommy_the_cat]

Name	Shawbrook
Type of Account	Loan
Date Commenced	July 2018
Date Defaulted	May 2019
Approx Balance	£23,000
Account Owner	Cabot
Arrangement/Not paying	Not paying
Last Date paid	March 2021

1. Early Feb - CCA Request sent to Cabot
2. 26 Feb 21 - Response from Cabot - Need 12 days
3. 11 Mar 21 - Response from Cabot - Still Processing (Account unenforceable)
4. 07 May 21 - I made a F&F offer of £600
5. 14 May 21 - Offer Rejected and counter made of £18k
6. 24 Jun 21 - Received a wad of papers from Cabot and a letter saying that they now consider the account enforceable and that they are now entitled to obtain a CCJ against me. Sent to Webmaster for UE check

Morning Ruined
Cabot have sent to me what seems to be all the relevant information and documentation. Sent to Niddy for review.

[Roger]

Thanks, Roger.

Sound advice. I will stop the DD for Wescot and transfer the funds to savings whilst I wait for the CCA. I haven't paid the Cabot/PRA unenforceable debts now for almost four months, and they are pretty quiet.

They won't remain quiet! But start building up that POT! You are taking control here! Well Done!

[Tommy_the_cat]

Whilst your CCA S.78 (plus £1) is outstanding these debts are NOT ENFORCIBLE in Law.
You don't need to advise Cabot or Wescot because they know this.
It also means the 6 year Statute Bar Clock is now running for you! Provided you do not write/pay or engage in correspondence which might restart the SBC clock!
Thats by Letter/Txt/Email/Phone.

Sit on your Hands and put whatever monies you have in a savings POT and stop payments.
Wait and see what they write or do next and refer back to AAD

Thanks, Roger.

Sound advice. I will stop the DD for Wescot and transfer the funds to savings whilst I wait for the CCA. I haven't paid the Cabot/PRA unenforceable debts now for almost four months, and they are pretty quiet.

[Roger]

Whilst your CCA S.78 (plus £1) is outstanding these debts are NOT ENFORCIBLE in Law.
You don't need to advise Cabot or Wescot because they know this.
It also means the 6 year Statute Bar Clock is now running for you! Provided you do not write/pay or engage in correspondence which might restart the SBC clock!
Thats by Letter/Txt/Email/Phone.

Sit on your Hands and put whatever monies you have in a savings POT and stop payments.
Wait and see what they write or do next and refer back to AAD

[Tommy_the_cat]

Name	Halifax
Type of Account	Credit Card
Date Commenced	January 2016
Date Defaulted	January 2019
Approx Balance	£6,500
Account Owner	Halifax/Wescot
Arrangement/Not paying	Arrangement in Place
Last Date paid	May 2021

1. Payment plan agreed with Westcot and ongoing
2. I was of the opinion that sending a CCA request for a debt not sold on would be fruitless, but Di suggest to do so anyway. To be sent this week
3. 15 June 2021 - CCA request sent
4. Response from Wescot - "We refer to your recent communication requesting a copy of the credit agreement. This request has been noted and we will be in touch in due course. We can confirm the account has been placed on hold while we look into your request".

Hi everyone. Whilst this account is "on hold" with Wescot, should I still keep up the payment arrangement, or stop it whilst they investigate? Thanks!

[Tommy_the_cat]

Name	Virgin
Type of Account	Credit Card
Date Commenced	March 2017
Date Defaulted	June 2019
Approx Balance	£10,000
Account Owner	Cabot
Arrangement/Not paying	Not paying
Last Date paid	March 2021

1. Early Feb - CCA Request sent to Cabot
2. 26 Feb 21 - Response from Cabot - Need 12 days
3. 11 Mar 21 - Response from Cabot - Still Processing (Account unenforceable)
4. 07 May 21 - I made a F&F offer of £400
5. 14 May 21 - Offer Rejected and counter made of £8k
6. 21 Jun 21 - Letter received from Cabot - "We haven't been able to obtain the information you requested from the original lender. If this information becomes available to us later, we'll complete your request and send you the relevant information. Until we can supply this, your account is unenforceable".

Hi everyone. Would you recommend making my F&F offer again? Thanks

[Warwick65]

Just to add, sometimes they are getting problems accessing agreements because some people are still working from home and they do not have the facilities to print and post what they need

[Warwick65]

I suspect they know it is UE and you have gone to the bottom of the pile- don't worry at some point you will hit the top and they will write to you. However if they do know it is UE they really shouldn't be writing. Once they knew they were in default of my CCA request on two debts (only about £3K in total) they wrote them off. My other at 15K I kept getting increasing discount offers, at 70% off which I ignored they stopped writing.

I hate to admit it but cabot have improved in their customer care over the last few years so will probably lay low for a while as they have told you they are still sourcing documents- long may that continue