My Debt Diary

[DF.Ben]

Another claim received, diary has been updated.
Have spoken to JCS now and considering instructing them at this point!

[DF.Ben]

Gerry Jemitus looks like I may be needing your assistance - I’ve just received a claim form for old Barclaycard debt with PRA. Waiting on DSAR response from Barclaycard. It’s quite an old reconstituted CCA

I had been trying to negotiate a F&F with some
money from parents but was short of the 50% they wanted to settle this and another 2 but was still
hoping to sort it that way so now a bit gutted at the prospect of a CCJ

[Gerry Jemitus]

I appreciate that the objective of most people on AAD is to avoid legal action, which is entirely understandable, but some of the posts referred to go back many years and so may not be as relevant today.

As a solicitors firm that specialises in defending consumer credit claims, our position is somewhat different. First of all, we are happy to advise clients, and we do not restrict this to one 30 minute phone call.

Of the many claims that come to us to defend, some have been started by the defendant before they come to us. They may file an acknowledgment of service and defence, but then decide to get professional help as directions questionnaires become due, or as a hearing looms. From our perspective, these cases are more difficult and generally more expensive to defend.

We invariably have to file an application to amend the defence which now costs £303. In some instances, errors in documentation may have already been brought to the attention of the claimant, giving them the opportunity to correct issues such as illegible copies etc.

Responding to the LBC may help the defendant in cases where the claimant cannot obtain or produce the relevant paperwork, but if the claimant can put together documentation it puts them in a stronger position, and thus more likely to proceed to issue, as they have a better case prepared.

Hence it is a double-edged sword, and there is no simple answer. If interaction stops the claimant from issuing, that is a great result, but if it doesn't, it can make the job of defending the claim more difficult, it can be more expensive and it generally takes longer.

A word of caution, do not assume that lack of documentation means a claimant will not issue proceedings, We have had a number of cases where claimants have employed high level barristers to argue that they do not need to provide complaint s 77-79 documentation on a closed account. We have successfully defended these on each occasion, but there is no decided case law on this so each case will be determined by a DJ based on the missions put forward.

[Roger]

I’ve not been anywhere before. As you say it is Ben’s diary and I think they have had the help they need.

What they do is entirely up to them.

Where is your Diary?

[Dottir]

I’ve not been anywhere before. As you say it is Ben’s diary and I think they have had the help they need.

What they do is entirely up to them.

[Roger]

Indeed they do. Are you calling Sara ( Debt Camel) a barrack room lawyer? I would be very careful there, she is very highly respected within both the CAB and the media in general- https://debtcamel.co.uk/about/ or, are you looking in the mirror?

You constantly tell us that tactics have changed but you never tell us who says and why. You never provide evidence. In the sciences just as in law you need to prove yourself. You do not simply say that the earth is round (ish) without providing evidence.


Carey v HSBC was one of those seismic changes, there are others. I was never convinced it was a good outcome however the likes of AAD tried to spin it although it did settle some questions.

The Pre Action Protocols were an example of changes designed to free up court time- if creditors did not have the documents then they should back off or face the consequences, of course that same responsibility runs with the public as well- if the creditors can prove their claim then make an arrangement.

I would say that the time between issuing a claim and it reaching court can be a very long time indeed- there is still a massive covid backlog BUT once a claim is issued the limitations clock stops.

The whole mantra of AAD is to keep out of court, always was and always will be. Having a free consultation is great but surely that is to be used almost as a last resort.

Dottir Been here before haven't we! The AAD Diaries reveal the changing tactics over the years.

The AAD Diary is the priority here because this is the foundation for good and informed decisions.
This is DF.Ben Diary and that is the focus of my attention

[Dottir]

Barrack room lawyers proliferate the WEB don't they?

Indeed they do. Are you calling Sara ( Debt Camel) a barrack room lawyer? I would be very careful there, she is very highly respected within both the CAB and the media in general- https://debtcamel.co.uk/about/ or, are you looking in the mirror?

You constantly tell us that tactics have changed but you never tell us who says and why. You never provide evidence. In the sciences just as in law you need to prove yourself. You do not simply say that the earth is round (ish) without providing evidence.


Carey v HSBC was one of those seismic changes, there are others. I was never convinced it was a good outcome however the likes of AAD tried to spin it although it did settle some questions.

The Pre Action Protocols were an example of changes designed to free up court time- if creditors did not have the documents then they should back off or face the consequences, of course that same responsibility runs with the public as well- if the creditors can prove their claim then make an arrangement.

I would say that the time between issuing a claim and it reaching court can be a very long time indeed- there is still a massive covid backlog BUT once a claim is issued the limitations clock stops.

The whole mantra of AAD is to keep out of court, always was and always will be. Having a free consultation is great but surely that is to be used almost as a last resort.

[Roger]

Roger I am not sure what you think I know but think away. Maybe you could link us to your diaries or indeed those of ‘Di’ . What I do know is that the posts you link to give useful information but no advice.

As I said in my original post on here, you seem to be the only person who says ignore. Debt Camel says take action, other forums say take action. Lawyers say take action, even the courts and tribunal service say take action ( the pre action protocols). Why do you know better?

Reading you other posts I don’t expect an understandable answer.

Im pretty certain I’ve already said to send a DSAR to the original creditor but that might have been another thread.

Yes I did, post 53.

The AAD diaries are there to be perused and read and you will quickly discovery that over time the advice has changed and this in response to what is actually happening, current practices. Tactics have changed!!
Especially not a knee jerk reactions on receipt of an LBC reactions being recommended and set out by Dottir


Barrack room lawyers proliferate the WEB don't they?

A good AAD Diary can be so revealing and the foundation for good and current advice when and if needed.
AAD also have the benefit of an initial free consultation with JCS.

[Dottir]

Roger I am not sure what you think I know but think away. Maybe you could link us to your diaries or indeed those of ‘Di’ . What I do know is that the posts you link to give useful information but no advice.


As I said in my original post on here, you seem to be the only person who says ignore. Debt Camel says take action, other forums say take action. Lawyers say take action, even the courts and tribunal service say take action ( the pre action protocols). Why do you know better?

Reading you other posts I don’t expect an understandable answer.

Im pretty certain I’ve already said to send a DSAR to the original creditor but that might have been another thread.

Yes I did, post 53.

[Roger]

I just want to say that responding to a letter of claim (if it is one) or asking for documents , if done properly, would in anyway restart the limitations clock.

I am not 100% convinced it is a letter of claim but I would treat it as one. Therefore think about following the excellent advice of debt camel .

If it were me it would be
The agreement and any altered terms
The default notice
The notice of assignment
The deed of assignment
A complete statement of account.

There are also other documents you should have be sent regularly but at this point don’t ask for them.

Dottir
As you well know and indeed certain others who were banned from this site.
Where is your AAD Diary of Debts?

DCA's have used the LBC to get their missing Documentation in order before coming back against Debtors!
Tactics have changed and why encourage this DCA to get their ducks in a row??


DF.Ben
Also has advice already given in their Diary from JCS @Di and particular relevant to PRA
see here https://all-about-debt.co.uk/forum/d...68#post1538368

The suggested advice is to ask the Original Creditors for the all the DATA they currently have! See just what Cards PRA may or mostly likely don't have!

[Dottir]

I just want to say that responding to a letter of claim (if it is one) or asking for documents , if done properly, would not in anyway, re start the limitations clock. There is no harm in asking for them.

I am not 100% convinced it is a letter of claim but I would treat it as one. Therefore think about following the excellent advice of debt camel .

If it were me it would be
The agreement and any altered terms
The default notice
The notice of assignment
The deed of assignment
A complete statement of account.

There are also other documents you should have be sent regularly but at this point don’t ask for them.

[Roger]

Because of financial hardship during Covid.

Ok Look if PRA are going to Sue they will do this anyway won't they.
I presume you are not yet a Home Owner which means a Charge on a Property isn't an option for them!
But they clearly went with the Financial hardships during COVID.
So who is to say that Financial hardships are not still an issue?

This looks like a fishing expedition on PRA's part!

Also I presume by now that nothing is showing on the Credit Agencies Reports!

Don't enter any correspondence with them at this stage! Nothing which could restart the Statute Bar Clock!

What would make sense now anyway would be to send DSAR's to the Original Creditors with these (two) Accounts.

This to find out what the Creditors actually hold on record! Also correspondence if any between PRA and those Original Creditors.

PRA did have Assignment issues in some Cases!
DSAR's I think make sense here at this point!

[DF.Ben]

Diary says "January 2021 - PRA group put all my accounts on hold for 90 days which is mid April 2021."
Why did they do that?

Because of financial hardship during Covid.

[Night Monkey]

Just wanted to add- this is a really good guide from Sara a senior member of CAB. She has appeared on BBC MoneyBox on Radio 4
https://debtcamel.co.uk/letter-before-claim-ccj/

Just a thought are they definitely letters of claim, you know, the ones with 4 pages that include a space for Iand E?

I second this - I recently received what appeared to be a Letter Before Action which on closer inspection was simply masquerading as such. The sender was giving the impression of sending one while leaving their options open. Worth confirming what you're actually dealing with.

[Still Waving]

Thanks Dottir

it has got included an information sheet and reply form. States they could take me to court if I don’t send the reply form back in 30 days.

no I&E form included but one of the many available box options is to send a financial statement with a proposal for repayments

Diary says "January 2021 - PRA group put all my accounts on hold for 90 days which is mid April 2021."
Why did they do that?