My debt diary - february17

[February17]

Sent you an email Di, hope it arrives as took me an hour to type it,
Thanks

[February17]

Hello Di,

Yes my post disappeared and so have my edits to my posts in this thread. Sure someone will fix it soon.
I will email you, not really urgent but I do need some help with PRA.
Thanks

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

I received an email alert today which said you had posted on your thread but I can’t see any post.

The forum has been experiencing some technical blips in the last few days so is it possible for you to post again?

I also see you have sent me a PM but maybe email me if it’s urgent using di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk

I look forward to helping you

Di

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Hello Di,

No Credit agreement received yet on this one, it has been nearly 6 months so far so hopefully they wont find it

I do receive a phone call every month from PRA

Did this debt begin life as a Barclaycard or was it an Egg or Morgan Stanley Dean Witter credit card at the outset subsequently bought by Barclays?

Do try to stay off the phone - everything needs to be in writing from now on. You need to lay a paper trail.

Entering into a phone conversation could be considered as acknowledging the debt which in turn could scupper/delay your chances of the debt becoming Statute Barred sooner rather than later.

Di

[February17]

Hello Di,

No Credit agreement received yet on this one, it has been nearly 6 months so far so hopefully they wont find it

I do receive a phone call every month from PRA and when the person on the phone is reminded of the outstanding request and looks at the account history they put it on hold for another 30 days.....

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Card 3
Barclaycard 2
account opened 2008
balance approx £7000

I paid reduced payments from March 2017 until December 2017 when Barclays sold to PRA, I then stopped paying.
December 2017 - sent CCA request to PRA
December 2017 - reply from PRA that they will request information from Barclays.
March 2018 - Not received any copy agreement or anything for this account yet from PRA.
PRA phone Monthly, I politely remind them I am still waiting for my CCA request and they put the account on hold again, they have been pleasant so far.
May 2018 - Still no agreement.

More will be added later as information arrives.

Still no credit agreement or phone calls/letters from PRA for this old Barclaycard debt?

Di

[The Tech Clerk]

go to AAD+ above and read that area

[February17]

Is it possible for this thread to be moved by a moderator to the AAD+ protected area of the forum as google is indexing this in the open forum and I would prefer it more private ?
Thanks.

[February17]

Hello Di,

Niddy has looked at the details PRA obtained from Barclays and confirms they are unenforceable as no signed agreement.

All they sent are a blank piece of paper with my name and address at the top, no signature or tick boxes and at the bottom it says 'Your right to Cancel: Once you have signed this agreement, etc, etc,' and then they enclosed two different sets of terms and conditions and printout of the account balance and some transactions.

This account is from the year 1999 so hopefully they would need something signed.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

I need advice on a Barclays, I emailed Niddy a scan of documents received from PRA,

If it's the debt below then I see it started life as an Egg credit card not a Barclaycard so that may give PRA a headache when it comes to producing a compliant credit agreement.

Did they send you an online Egg application form but Barclaycard Ts & Cs?

Even if the credit agreement is 'enforceable' that doesn't necessarily mean there won't be issues with the Default Notice and assignment etc.

Barclaycard 1 - was an Egg card
Account opened in 1998
balance approx £9000

I paid reduced payments between March 2017 and December 2017 to Barclays until Barclays sold the account to PRA in early December 2017 so I stopped paying.
December 2017 - requested CCA from PRA
February 2018 - received details from PRA that they had obtained from Barclaycard. No signed agreement, just terms and conditions and what looks like some copy statements.
14th March 2018 - scanned and emailing to Niddy for his opinion.

Di

[February17]

Thanks Di and Nightwatch.

The PRA phone calls have started again so I will send a letter about no phone contact.
PRA always phone during working hours when they know I will be working and I cant really talk anyway and dont have the information needed with me.

Some pages of the MBNA SAR request have about 30% of the information on the pages redacted / lines blacked out, mainly just after the account was opened in 1997 and 1998.
So they are hiding some comments that are on their systems

I need advice on a Barclays, I emailed Niddy a scan of documents received from PRA,

Can the team ask Niddy if my email arrived as the attachment was large and I don't know if there is a maximum file size limit on the forums email address. Not had a reply or any bounce backs so dont know if it worked or not

(I sent emails to Niddy on the 14th March and 19th March if that helps looking through the inbox)

Thanks for everyone's help

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Hello Di,

Yes this was in my post 2, MBNA about 19K debt.
I emailed the information received from PRA to Niddy and he says 'Missing prescribed terms' so that is great news

PRA sent a me copy of what was a fold up leaflet that says ' Priority Application Form' and some terms and conditions.

The letters and phone calls from MBNA have been mild so far, asking for a payment arrangement etc, no legal threats as yet.

I will look for a suitable 'missing prescribed terms' letter to send PRA and see what happens, or should I wait a bit longer for that ?

I also sent a SAR request to MBNA in December 2017 and received a lot of information although there is a lot of blacked out/redacted stuff

If the credit agreement is unenforceable then think twice about sending a letter which tells them what’s wrong which may only encourage them to try to remedy the situation.

You say there have been no legal threats so I see no need to respond to their latest letter.

I’m intrigued to read that MBNA have redacted loads of stuff in your SAR response. Whenever I see a document redacted by a lender I always want to know why in case it’s something which would harm their case if it ever went to court

Di

[nightwatch]

Hi Feb17,

Can I make one little request, do not talk to any of the lovely company's over the telephone, If you are going for SB they could say you have admitted the debt,
just tell them you require all communication in writing only, this way you have a paper trail of what they ask for and what reply you sent ( if any is needed)

good luck on your journey with us NW x

[February17]

Hello Di,

Yes this was in my post 2, MBNA about 19K debt.
I emailed the information received from PRA to Niddy and he says 'Missing prescribed terms' so that is great news

PRA sent a me copy of what was a fold up leaflet that says ' Priority Application Form' and some terms and conditions.

The letters and phone calls from MBNA have been mild so far, asking for a payment arrangement etc, no legal threats as yet.

I will look for a suitable 'missing prescribed terms' letter to send PRA and see what happens, or should I wait a bit longer for that ?

I also sent a SAR request to MBNA in December 2017 and received a lot of information although there is a lot of blacked out/redacted stuff on it.

MBNA sent two separate packs of information about my SAR request a few weeks apart for some reason.
There is lots of it and is now filed away safely.

Thanks for everyone's help and support.

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Can you ask Niddy to look out for it as I need to respond to PRA group soon

Is this the £19k ex-MBNA debt in your post # 2 ?

If so it says you sent a s 77-79 CCA Request to MBNA in July 2017 but seem to have got a reply from PRA the following month.

Before you respond to PRA's latest letter can you tell me what it says. It may not require a response unless it's a Letter Before Claim when it may need careful consideration.

PRA can be litigious. They issued a claim against me for two old MBNA credit cards but they lost in court.

‘“RECONSTITUTED AGREEMENT” – IRREDEEMABLY UNENFORCEABLE”
“UNREDACTED DEEDS OF ASSIGNMENT – NO ASSIGMENT PROVED”


So, held Recorder Bellamy in PRA Group (UK) Limited v Mayhew at Central London County Court on 22nd March 2017, at the end of a 3 day multi track trial, when dismissing PRA’s claim against our client.


Stale debts sued for on the back of 2 ‘reconstituted’ MBNA credit card agreements (May 1999 and October 2000) were held irredeemably unenforceable under CCA 1974. The evidence of an honest witness was preferred to that of so called “reconstituted agreements”.


After 3 days of close forensic examination of, and legal argument about, evidence and documents from both PRA and MBNA stating that our client’s specific debt had been assigned, the court held that no assignment had been proved.


Efforts, over many months, in earlier cases to force PRA into disclosure of un-redacted deeds and deep and sustained forensic challenge to the provenance of documents needed to prove regulatory compliance, finally drew back the veil. The reality behind bulk debt purchasing was revealed.


This decision shows that just saying an agreement is enforceable and producing a “reconstituted” copy does not prove that it is enforceable. Just saying an agreement has been assigned and producing a notice saying it has been assigned does not prove legal assignment.


Debt purchasers need to provide proof. If that means the pitifully few pence in the pound they pay for stale debts will increase because banks will now have to start keeping original evidence complying with regulatory consumer protection measures, it is hard to imagine many tears being shed, outside the City of London.

Di