Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

[churchman]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

Hi Churchman,
Hope your family issues are sorted out.
If you could break down the debts into one for each post, as described below, it will help to suggest the best course of action for each once the CCA responses start coming in.



kind regards,

Elsa x

Hi Elsa

Thank you and ScabMan too, I will get on this ASAP.

Cheers,

C

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

Hi Churchman,
Hope your family issues are sorted out.
If you could break down the debts into one for each post, as described below, it will help to suggest the best course of action for each once the CCA responses start coming in.

Would be good if you could start a diary here ---> Unenforceability Diaries - allaboutFORUMS

List your debts in the format below, one post for each debt. That will make it easier to see where we are once you start sending and receiving correspondence from creditors.

• Type of account (credit card/loan)
  
  
• Date commenced (ideally before Apr 2007)
  
  
• Approx balance
  
  
• Date last paid (approximate date you last made a FULL payment)
  
  
• Are you on arrangement or not paying
  
  
• Status (default/in arrears/up-to-date)
  
  
• Account owner (who is writing to you, a DCA or the lender)

kind regards,

Elsa x

[ScabHunter]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

Hello, sorry I've been out of the loop for a while with some family issues! My debts all went into payment plans (via CCCA - although not formal payment plans) in late 2008 and most were taken out several years prior to that.

I am aiming to request CCA's from each one this month with a view to seeing which are UE and which are not. RMA have the largest single amount and are the biggest pain.

That's a good plan. Anything from before 6th April 2007 has a chance of being unenforceable, and many members here are successfully blagging accounts which are not. Some are even successfully blagging post-6/4/07 accounts, which tells you the competency level of many DCA employees.

Have a look at the diaries and see how other people are listing their alleged debts, and then start one of your own. There are plenty of people here who have gone down the same route before you, and who can pass on some useful tips.

SH

[churchman]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

Hello, sorry I've been out of the loop for a while with some family issues! My debts all went into payment plans (via CCCA - although not formal payment plans) in late 2008 and most were taken out several years prior to that.

I am aiming to request CCA's from each one this month with a view to seeing which are UE and which are not. RMA have the largest single amount and are the biggest pain.

[churchman]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

I shall be doing so skipper, I shall be doing so. I'll also do it with the others and see where I stand, as it's been over 3 years since it all went pear-shaped.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

so why not send off for a CCA and see what they really have on this...?

no harm CCAing the buggers....

[churchman]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

That is not how I read it.... I would never presume that...

Sound advice Niddy, thanks for that.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

If I have understood correctly, it may well be that their focus on my sig is tacit admission that they don't have an enforceable debt at present?

That is not how I read it.... I would never presume that...

[churchman]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

Thanks all for your very useful comments. I was wondering why they haven't used the cheques that have been sent to them if they wanted my sig, but perhaps the cheque anti-fraud stuff stops them cutting and pasting.

If I have understood correctly, it may well be that their focus on my sig is tacit admission that they don't have an enforceable debt at present?

I feel a CCA or five coming on. Thanks again all.

[The Tech Clerk]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

As history seems to go around & come around:-

I wonder if some of these Judges one day will have their day i.e.

Judge Jeffries (The Hanging Judge) did, He Got Hung Himself for Treason against the people because of his judgment.

As Niddy states:- make use of the letters on the said subject of signature request.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

This is an interesting point because I'd read that they didn't need to provide the right address

To satisfy s.78 etc they can provide any address used from content and form of the original or as they have on their records. However if they legalise it then you'll find they'll need to provide you a copy (or at least have one themselves) of the executed version, i.e. with the name and address as at inception.

Remember this is a moot point, it is not enough on its own to classify default of s.78. Its de minimis as far as courts are concerned.... it's s.61(1) and s.127(3) that really matter.

[SXGuy]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

And like i always say, failure to provide a signature is not an excuse for creditors to opt out of their obligations, which my opinion, means that they help to keep the account UE until they remedy it.

So even if you thought they had an agreement, i wouldnt SAR them for it, id let them keep the line they want your sig, since its all helping that statued barred clock.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

Should any cut and pasting take place from my more recent correspondence to DCAs then this could result in fraud on their part. My passport and driving licence show my normal signature as do those copy application forms referred to above.

If such an event of fraudulent signature reproduction take place then I would inform the City of London Police who handle scams and fraud, how far the Police would take this I do not know. If there were a few of these then they could well take it up as this is a specialism of theirs.

Carey confirmed it is allowed - if there was anything 'fraudulent' within a copy 'true' original that would not have get missed. It is not fraud, it is recreating a legible copy of the original.

creditors are entitled to produce a reconstituted version of the credit agreement from the information they hold on the debtor. The reconstituted version does not need to include a signature box or indeed the actual signature but must contain the debtor’s name and address at the time it was executed.

The emphasis in the Carey case on section 78 appears to have obscured the real claim that exists under section 61(1)(a) and 127(3) of the Act. These sections dictate that a creditor must be able to produce a signed document (not necessarily the credit agreement) that contains the prescribed terms. The document must include the credit limit, the interest rate and details of how and when a debtor is to discharge his payment obligations. A failure to produce such a document is still capable of rendering the agreement irredeemably unenforceable.

I'm not saying I agree with Carey but whilst the facts remain you must be careful and never sign things - follow our processes on our forum and you'll be covered appropriately.

Just saying like...

[soldier1]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

I have used different signatures to my normal one in writing to DCAs and I do have copies of the original application form signature from SAR to the original creditors. Not that the usual S77 requests ever produced such copies.

Should any cut and pasting take place from my more recent correspondence to DCAs then this could result in fraud on their part. My passport and driving licence show my normal signature as do those copy application forms referred to above.

If such an event of fraudulent signature reproduction take place then I would inform the City of London Police who handle scams and fraud, how far the Police would take this I do not know. If there were a few of these then they could well take it up as this is a specialism of theirs.

On the matter of tactics, I think I would make it known to DCA that I do hold a copy of the original application before they attempt such an action as cutting and pasting. As most of us do, I do think about tactics and I would not contradict Niddy,s advice but in my case these different signatures of mine took place
some time ago

Finally, it may be an idea for people to SAR the original creditors to see what turns up. Once they have sold the debt on they do not have such a vested interest in
not providing a copy of the original application/agreement.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

Don't get carried away guys. I say don't sign for a reason. That reason is Carey. That allows them to recreate a document in content and form using any disposable methods from the data they have at hand on you. In essence a cut/paste signature "could" satisfy Carey so best is just not to sign and use our templates refusing to.

You do not need to. They know it's you cos they're hassling you to pay at that address. They know it's you cos that's the same address the account started at (possibly) and they know it's you cos they reply asking you to sign. Not asking you for ID.

Yawn