Unenforcable??

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Hello Di

Everything is currently unenforceable! Including the PRA loan and overdraft (which they tried to tell me wasn’t covered by the s77-79!!!)

Thanks for checking in and for your advice!

Thanks for the update.

Even if any of your credit agreements turn out to be enforceable there are plenty more other reasons for a debt to be unenforceable.

Post up if anything changes, and enjoy the peace and quiet in the meantime

Di

[MrsH]

Hello Di

Everything is currently unenforceable! Including the PRA loan and overdraft (which they tried to tell me wasn’t covered by the s77-79!!!)

Thanks for checking in and for your advice!

MrsH

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Loan (Natwest)

January 2008

£7,424

August 2010

Arrangement

In arrears (My reduced monthly payments are up to date) - did default but this has dropped off my credit file

PRA Group

All correspondence from PRA Group regarding this account state that it is currently unenforceable.

10/07/19 - CCA request sent.

13/07/19 - Letter received from PRA to say my request is being processed with.

Have PRA complied with your s77-79 CCA Request for this NatWest loan yet?

Last summer they admitted the debt was unenforceable, so hopefully that position hasn't changed

Di

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Hello Di

What is my next step regarding the overdraft? Do I write to them saying that HHJ Walden-Smith sitting at Cambridge County Court recently ruled that overdrafts are included in the CCA? And that Creditors must comply with S 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 requests relating to personal Current Account Overdrafts, not just credit cards and loans.

No need to write back to them just because they've written to you.

Lawyers have a saying "we don't litigate through correspondence".

I expect PRA may already be aware of our firm's judgments anyway if they follow Joanna Connolly on Twitter

Di

[MrsH]

Hello Di

I've tried to quote your post in #53 but can't...

What is my next step regarding the overdraft? Do I write to them saying that HHJ Walden-Smith sitting at Cambridge County Court recently ruled that overdrafts are included in the CCA? And that Creditors must comply with S 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 requests relating to personal Current Account Overdrafts, not just credit cards and loans.

Thank you

Mrs H

[MrsH]

Loan (Natwest)
January 2008
£7,424
August 2010
Arrangement
In arrears (My reduced monthly payments are up to date) - did default but this has dropped off my credit file
PRA Group

All correspondence from PRA Group regarding this account state that it is currently unenforceable.

10/07/19 - CCA request sent.

13/07/19 - Letter received from PRA to say my request is being processed with.

07/08/19 - Letter received from PRA. "Please find enclosed documentation received to date; we are awaiting further documents in order to complete your request. We have currently deemed this debt as unenforceable...." The enclosed documentation was loan statements from July 2009-January 2011.

Updated

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

I am due to make my monthly payments to PRA for the loan and the overdraft as quoted below. I have sent CCA requests to both, PRA are saying that the overdraft isn't included in a CCA.... Should I not send the payment for the loan but instead use that money to pay extra towards the overdraft?


Overdraft (Natwest)
Unsure of date - Had an overdraft since before 2005
£386
August 2010
Arrangement
In arrears (My reduced monthly payments are up to date)
PRA Group

10/07/19 - CCA request sent.

15/07/19 - Letter received from PRA "We are unable to fulfil your request for a copy agreement as current accounts do not require a credit agreement, therefore no credit agreement would have been set up when opening the account, such accounts are not included in the Consumer Credit Act 1974." Then they go on to say "Our fully trained agents will discuss your account further with you and help you come to a mutually acceptable agreement in order to settle your outstanding balance."

PRA may say the overdraft isn't covered by s78 CCA but a recent court judgment says different.

Jo explains this here >

The claim against our clients in this case was for monies owing under a personal Current Account Overdraft. We lost at first instance before a District Judge in Peterborough County Court and appealed the decision before HHJ Walden-Smith sitting at Cambridge County Court.

The Appeal was successful yesterday. This is an important case because it confirms that consumers using the unenforceability provisions of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 can successfully defend claims for personal Current Account Overdrafts in court. In this instant case the Appeal court found the personal Current Account Overdraft agreement to be unenforceable pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act because of lack of evidence of compliance with the requirements of the OFT determination.

It was also accepted that Creditors must comply with S 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 requests relating to personal Current Account Overdrafts, not just credit cards and loans. In this case the Appeal court did find that MFS Portfolio Ltd had complied with the S 78 Consumer Credit Act request. If they hadn’t complied with the statutory request then the personal Current Account Overdraft would have been unenforceable pursuant to s.78 (6) (a) Consumer Credit Act , which is contrary to the position creditors normally take.

Di

[MrsH]

Hi - I'm hoping someone can advise on what to do please. Tomorrow I am due to make my monthly payments to PRA for the loan and the overdraft as quoted below. I have sent CCA requests to both, PRA are saying that the overdraft isn't included in a CCA.... Should I not send the payment for the loan but instead use that money to pay extra towards the overdraft?

MrsH


Overdraft (Natwest)
Unsure of date - Had an overdraft since before 2005
£386
August 2010
Arrangement
In arrears (My reduced monthly payments are up to date)
PRA Group

10/07/19 - CCA request sent.

15/07/19 - Letter received from PRA "We are unable to fulfil your request for a copy agreement as current accounts do not require a credit agreement, therefore no credit agreement would have been set up when opening the account, such accounts are not included in the Consumer Credit Act 1974." Then they go on to say "Our fully trained agents will discuss your account further with you and help you come to a mutually acceptable agreement in order to settle your outstanding balance."

Loan (Natwest)

January 2008

£7,424

August 2010

Arrangement

In arrears (My reduced monthly payments are up to date) - did default but this has dropped off my credit file

PRA Group

All correspondence from PRA Group regarding this account state that it is currently unenforceable.

10/07/19 - CCA request sent.

13/07/19 - Letter received from PRA to say my request is being processed with.

[MrsH]

Can you clarify whether this was an arranged overdraft and what happened in August 2010?

When did NatWest assign the account to PRA?

Are you still making payments?

I'm not too sure if it is agreed or not - I did have an agreed overdraft on the account, but I can't remember whether this is just the overdraft or if I went overdrawn from charges to the account when I started making token payments in Aug/Sept 2010.

It was assigned to PRA in January 2019.

Yes I'm still making token payments to it.

Thanks

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

Hi Di - apologies, hope I've done it correctly this time...

It is regarding the debt below.

Many thanks, MrsH


Overdraft (Natwest)
Unsure of date - Had an overdraft since before 2005
£386
August 2010
Arrangement
In arrears (My reduced monthly payments are up to date)
PRA Group

10/07/19 - CCA request sent.

15/07/19 - Letter received from PRA "We are unable to fulfil your request for a copy agreement as current accounts do not require a credit agreement, therefore no credit agreement would have been set up when opening the account, such accounts are not included in the Consumer Credit Act 1974." Then they go on to say "Our fully trained agents will discuss your account further with you and help you come to a mutually acceptable agreement in order to settle your outstanding balance."

No need to apologise, this isn't school

Can you clarify whether this was an arranged overdraft and what happened in August 2010?

When did NatWest assign the account to PRA?

Are you still making payments?

Di

[MrsH]

Hi Di - apologies, hope I've done it correctly this time...

It is regarding the debt below.

Many thanks, MrsH


Overdraft (Natwest)
Unsure of date - Had an overdraft since before 2005
£386
August 2010
Arrangement
In arrears (My reduced monthly payments are up to date)
PRA Group

10/07/19 - CCA request sent.

15/07/19 - Letter received from PRA "We are unable to fulfil your request for a copy agreement as current accounts do not require a credit agreement, therefore no credit agreement would have been set up when opening the account, such accounts are not included in the Consumer Credit Act 1974." Then they go on to say "Our fully trained agents will discuss your account further with you and help you come to a mutually acceptable agreement in order to settle your outstanding balance."

[Joanna Connolly Solicitors]

PRA have told me that with regards to my Natwest Overdraft - they are "unable to fulfil my request for a copy agreement as current accounts do not require a credit agreement, therefore no credit agreement would have been set up when opening the account, such accounts are not included in the Consumer Credit Act 1974."

As mentioned in post #11 by Di - an overdraft is covered in s78. Any ideas what my next step is?

Your next step is to do nothing if this is the debt in post # 4.

(It helps the forum if you re-quote or Cut & Paste the history of each account when you have new information to add and update.)

Di

[MrsH]

PRA have told me that with regards to my Natwest Overdraft - they are "unable to fulfil my request for a copy agreement as current accounts do not require a credit agreement, therefore no credit agreement would have been set up when opening the account, such accounts are not included in the Consumer Credit Act 1974."

As mentioned in post #11 by Di - an overdraft is covered in s78. Any ideas what my next step is?

Debt No 2

Even though this was an overdraft you can still send the s 77-79 CCA Request since a recent county court judgment ruled that overdrafts are covered by s 78 Consumer Credit Act.

Read this post by Joanna Connolly >

Thanks!

[MrsH]

Thank you both - really appreciate your help!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Intrum contacted me by phone on 04/07/19 with a matter that they needed to discuss, I informed them that I will not deal with anything over the phone and that they need to put it in writing to me. I received a letter 09/07/19 just saying 'following your request for the balance of you account, please be advised that the current balance is....' I hadn't requested this information and there was no mention of it being currently unenforceable due to them not responding to my CCA request.... Is this just a way of reminding me that I still owe the money even though they haven't sent me a credit agreement?

Thanks

If they ring in future, you can just hang-up. You are under no obligation to speak to them. Being honest, I tend to write to all my creditors stating that I am no longer available by phone and to contact me in writing only. I just add it to the CCA and / or any future replies. Bear it in mind if you get into letter ping-pong; just add a line saying "I do not have a phone anymore so please ensure all future correspondence is made via letter at my home address, and remove all contact phone numbers you may have as none will be valid anymore."

That will kill off the calls once and for all (usually) - plus if they continue to call, you can get them on grounds of harassment. It's handy to have ammunition in case they get arsey.

Best thing to do is to stop your payments, send a CCA to everyone (just once) - and then work through them in order. The Enforceable ones are the ones where it may be prudent to cease payments for a few months, save a bit, then make a F&F offer to those only. But only if they are making threats. It's still wise to cease payments, as you get their attention plus you are pushing towards SB with every year that passes.

Lots of options, that's why we're here - to help you learn and fight back, where we can.