Which Way to Go?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Which Way to Go?

One point I would like to ask about -

As - a while after I had stopped paying - LTSB referred the matter straight to Apex without chasing me and prior to any CCA request, I subsequently sent the CCA request to Apex. Apex have said in their letter they would return the £1 to me, though I don't particularly want it back. I'm not sure whether Apex passed the CCA request letter to LTSB.

Should I ask Apex to pass the £1 and the original request to LTSB, or accept the return of the £1?

When I send the Sold in Dispute letter to Moorcroft, and they refer to LTSB, The OC
may say they have no record of my CCA request letter (and their current stance is cca 74 doesn't apply).

If you've sent a CCA Request, some firms don't take payment - fine.

All you need to do is await a response to that request and update as necessary then. I wouldn't contact Apex now till they respond with the CCA.

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

One point I would like to ask about -

As - a while after I had stopped paying - LTSB referred the matter straight to Apex without chasing me and prior to any CCA request, I subsequently sent the CCA request to Apex. Apex have said in their letter they would return the £1 to me, though I don't particularly want it back. I'm not sure whether Apex passed the CCA request letter to LTSB.

Should I ask Apex to pass the £1 and the original request to LTSB, or accept the return of the £1?

When I send the Sold in Dispute letter to Moorcroft, and they refer to LTSB, The OC
may say they have no record of my CCA request letter (and their current stance is cca 74 doesn't apply).

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

I agree again. Crapbot pulled this stunt on me in 2008. Following a formal complaint, they had to back down. Be careful how you word the letter, because it is easy to acknowledge the alleged debt while complaining about an action which acknowledges the alleged debt, if you know what I mean.

You obviously know your stuff well enough to cope with this, but if you need someone to look over the letter before you send it, just give us a shout.

SH

Thanks SH. I recently drafted such a letter to send to Apex, but decided to wait until I heard something further from them. It seems likely that I won't hear from them now. I'll review the draft, and may post it up before sending.

[ScabHunter]

Re: Which Way to Go?

I think I should now send a Sold w i Dispute letter to Moorcroft.

I agree.

I also now need to send a letter to Apex complaining about the misappropriation of my £1, and get them to acknowledge and confirm that they have reversed the payment to the account. (Or else).

I agree again. Crapbot pulled this stunt on me in 2008. Following a formal complaint, they had to back down. Be careful how you word the letter, because it is easy to acknowledge the alleged debt while complaining about an action which acknowledges the alleged debt, if you know what I mean.

You obviously know your stuff well enough to cope with this, but if you need someone to look over the letter before you send it, just give us a shout.

SH

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Hi all. An update:-

Bank account LLoydsTSB – originally TSB a/c opened 80's
Balance approx. £2140
Last full monthly repayment May 2010
DMP payments since then.
Last DMP payment May 2012.
Being administered by SCM Solicitors for bank.

This is not really an overdraft account, it was a TSB (revolving credit) account allowing up to 30 times the monthly transfer from the current account. I have not so far sent a CCA request in respect of this account.

Letters dated 12/9/12From LloydsTSB and Apex Credit Management in the same envelope. Apex have been instructed to arrange collection of the outstanding amount. I note that the letters are referring to this as a current account, which it is most definitely not.
18/9/12- voicemail message from Apex - "Contact us."
26/09/12 sent CCA Request to Apex, pointing out that this is not a current account, and also incorporating a request to stop the harassing phone calls (which I had not been picking up).
01/10/12 received Apex letter dated 27/09/12 (Re CCA request) “In relation to the aforementioned account, we can confirm that we are unable to obtain copies of the required documentation from the original creditor in order to comply with your request due to the fact that your account is a current account and no copies of agreements are available on these types of accounts and therefore your request does not fall under sections 77-79 of the CCA Act of 1974.”

(NOTE: Most of interim history comment omitted on this occasion)

04/10/12. Letter sent to Apex, reiterating that this is not a current account and repeating that it falls under CCA 1974 so I require the info.
Received a letter from LTSB dated 04/10/12. "Thank you for contacting us about a Personal Loan. (I didn't)Unfortunately we are unable to trace an account held by you here at the Loan Centre.”
Apex letter 09/10/12. “With reference to your recent dispute, we can confirm your account is currently under referal (sic), with our request for a Copy of Agreement, Statement of Accounts and Terms and Conditions due to be supplied by Lloyds Banking Group.”
22/10/12 Apex letter (Precis of longish letter) - “OC states that this was originally a current account, and as the debt relates to a current account CCA 1974 does not apply.
For your convenience, the £1 payment has been used to reduce your outstanding indebtedness. If you disagree we will arrange for the £1 to be returned to you.”

Update
07/11/12 letter to Apex. - “I can prove this is not my current account ….. Use of my £1 is clearly against the express purpose for which it was sent....Require you to recover the sum from where you have posted it, and to apply it to my Consumer Credit Act 1974 request.”
12/11/12 Apex letter – (Precis) “We're just piggy in the middle, reliant on LTSB info supplied. We have requested account documentation …. until any uncertainty regarding the debt is removed all collection activity will be suspended.
Until docs received, propose to leave the £1 on your account … if docs show that account doesn't fall under CCA 74, your £1 can either remain on the account or be returned to you.”


15/01/13 Letter on LTSB letterhead (but posted in Stockport) - “ As we haven't been able to agree a repayment plan we've transferred the account to Moorcroft DCA..... Please contact Moorcroft.....”
19/01/13 Moorcroft letter – Same content as the 28/12/12 letter to spent2much here ->> allaboutFORUMS - View Single Post - spent2much UE diary


I think I should now send a Sold w i Dispute letter to Moorcroft.


I also now need to send a letter to Apex complaining about the misappropriation of my £1, and get them to acknowledge and confirm that they have reversed the payment to the account. (Or else).

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Thanks SH, a point I will bear in mind.

[ScabHunter]

Re: Which Way to Go?

I am sending Threat of Doorstep Visit letter.

Yes, good move.

Let's hope the cretins do “charge a fee”, because there will be no contractual stipulation for any such charges. They will just push the alleged account even further into dispute, and give you further points of contention should you need to respond to a letter of claim.

SH

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Hi all, an update.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotDrowningButWaving
Credit card 2 MBNA. – Taken out early 90's
Balance approx. £8,500
Last full monthly repayment May 2010
DMP payments until May 2012.
“Sold” to Idem Capital securities Ltd (Paragon Personal Finance Ltd) by lender beginning 2012
Last DMP payment May 2012.

02/08/12 CCA request sent.
No response until Idem letter 20/10/12 “ We need to speak with you . We do not have an ongoing payment arrangement in place upon your account. As a consequence of this your account will be reviewed for placement with an external DCA within the next 7 days. …... Please contact us ...” Ignored.
Idem letter 6/11/12 - “Your account will now be transferred to Arden CM …..”Ignored.
Arden letter 8/11/12 - “We have been instructed …....”Ignored
12/11/12 Idem statement of account Jan to Nov 2012 “In compliance with CCA 1974.”Ignored
22/11/12 Arden letter “Failure to come to an acceptable arrangement with us could result in us taking further action … the options available to us are: Sending a rep to your address; Passing your account to our solicitors to obtain Judgment and seek enforcement action in line with your circumstances. The above actions have the potential of increasing your current balance”
28/11/12 sent Sold while in Dispute letter, including a para re telephone harassment.
Arden letter dated 3/12/12 - “We are writing to confirm that the present situation of non-payment on the above account is not acceptable. Blah, blah, blah …... Should you choose to do nothing we may take further action ….... this may include instructing an agent to attend your property ….. We may also initiate legal action.”
12/12/12 sent brief acknowledgement referring to my SWID letter of 28/11/12.
06/12/12 Idem letter (rec'd 14/12/12) enclosing response to CCA request of 02/08/12. Niddy says Enforceable.

17/12/12 -Arden FINAL DEMAND letter.
03/01/13 Sent letter to Arden referring to my letters of 27/11 and 12/12, neither of which has been acknowledged in their subsequent correspondence.
11/01/13 Arden letter - “ We have attempted to contact you on a number of occasions …. as we have not been able to make contact with you we believe it is necessary to appoint an external company “Resolvecall" to attend your property …. A fee for the visit may be charged to your account and may be subject to ongoing interest application. The maximum fee we are permitted to charge you will not exceed £100 but is likely to be less.
We hope at this stage …. but if we do not hear within 5 days of the date of this letter (sent 2nd class and received today) Resolvecall will schedule your account for a visit and a fee may be levied on completion.”


I am sending Threat of Doorstep Visit letter.

[MrsD]

Re: Which Way to Go?

this is a bad case of desperate button pushing in that cupboard this mob call an office.

I would do what you've suggested.

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Hi all, another update.

Credit card 4 Mint/RBS. – Taken out during 90's (I think)
Balance approx. £8,750
Last full monthly repayment May 2010
DMP payments since then.
Last DMP payment May 2012.
Being administered by lender


02/08/12 CCA 1974 request sent to RBS
15/08/12 Reply received from Mint re CCA request. They have returned my postal order, and the gist of their letter is"I am unable to deal with your request due to, (ticked as appropriate)
s78 request received, however this has been returned to you as we require your signature before we can proceed. Please sign your request for information and return ....."
29/08/12 sent CCA Request - Demand of Signature by Creditor letter to Mint/RBS.
05/09/12 RBS letter- "THIS IS A FINAL DEMAND FOR PAYMENT - We currently require (the full amount) from you. If we do not receive a payment within the next 14 days, the account will be sent to a debt collection agent. Even at this late stage ........ discuss a repayment programme"
15/09/12 sent RBS a brief letter reminding that CCA 1974 request is outstanding.
29/10/12 RBS letter - “Details have been passed to Moorcroft to act as collection agent.” - Ignored.
24/11/12 Moorcroft letter - “IMPORTANT INFORMATION – POSSIBLE FURTHER ACTION. …. please send your payment proposal ….. if not … recommend possible further debt recovery action. Contact us now …. in certain circumstances we may be able to offer a substantial discount ...” - Ignored.
11/12/12 Moorcroft letter - “Monthly Instalment Offer …... An illustration of the kind of figure ...£120 per month … clear balance in 73 months … failure to respond ... recommend taking further debt recovery action ...Do not ignore this letter.”
18/12/12 Sent Account Sold w i Dispute letter to Moorcroft
27/12/12 letter from Midas Credit Services - “WARNING OF POSSIBLE FURTHER ACTION - We are part of the Moorcroft Group ….. As no agreement has been reached we have been asked to review your account to consider the steps which may be taken ….. options include recommending one of the following: Continue our attempts to contact you by letter and phone; …. arrange to call at your home address; … referral for consideration by our Litigation Selection Team. To prevent … you must contact Moorcroft ….Failure to contact Moorcroft ….”

08/01/13 Letter to Midas CS – “With reference to your letter dated 31 /12/12, I would refer you to my letter to Moorcroft Debt Recovery dated 18/12/12.
Be advised that I will not in future correspond with different departments from the Moorcroft Group at the same time. Any further occurrences of such correspondence from the group will be deemed harassment with a formal complaint following.”

09/01/13 Letter from Moorcroft Home Collections Division - “DISCOUNT OFFER - ….failed to make any payment to us ...passed to Home Collections Division for action. This may involve local rep calling at your home....
Our client is aware of the difficult financial circumstances that a number of their customers are currently experiencing …. authorised us to consider a discounted settlement figure ….
Depending on your circumstances we may be able to offer you;

• A reduction of up to 20% subject to your personal circumstances
• Greater discounts may be available to you and can often vary, dependent on your personal circumstances
• The option of paying the agreed settlement figure over a period of up to 3 months subject to terms & conditions.

This offer is for a period of 7 days from the date of this letter.
To take advantage ... phone without delay …if no satisfactory arrangement made with us or our local representative … recommend to our client ...commence further recovery action.”


I think I should refer them to my Sold w i Dispute letter of 18/12/12, included in a Threat of Doorstep Visit letter.

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

An update -

Hi all, an update.

Credit card 6 Capital 1. – Taken out 2002
Balance approx. £440
Last full monthly repayment May 2010
DMP payments since then.
Last DMP payment May 2012.
Being administered by lender


02/08/12CCA request sent.
17/08/12Cap1 sent Recon agreement. Niddy said - the terms are a recon but not relevant to the product I signed up for.
07/09/12Sent Missing Prescribed Terms letter.
Two letters received from Cap1 on 01/10/12:-
First letter dated 25/09/12 – a long repetitive and waffling response to the MPT letter claiming they have fulfilled their CCA obligations. I would like to send this one to Niddy for an opinion as to how to respond.
Second letter dated 27/09/12 – “Account has been referred to Fredrickson International.” I shall do nothing on this one until I hear from Fredrickson in writing. So far they have attempted to contact me by phone twice in the past two days.
Letter dated 02/10/12 received from Fredrickson - "Cap1 have passed this account to us for collection ......As we have been appointed as their agent you should now make sure you contact us and not Cap1. ..... Our client now requires payment in full to avoid further action. ....You must phone us immediately ....."
08/10/12 Account Sold whilst in Dispute (including para re phone harassment) letter sent.Fredrickson letter 11/10/12 - “We would be grateful if you will note that we are no longer instructed to act in connection with this matter. We have passed your letter to our clients and would be grateful if you will address all further correspondence with them direct.”
Since 22/11/12 there were several calls from Freds, some voicemail and some missed. None were responded to.
04/12/12 Freds letter “LETTER BEFORE ACTION … legal action is now being considered. Should it be necessary to issue proceedings in the County Court further additional fees will be added to the balance outstanding (fees and new balance set out)"
08/12/12 Threat-O-Gram LBA letter sent.
17/12/12 Freds letter - “We have referred this matter to our client ….”
19/12/12 Freds letter - “We have provided details of your dispute to our client, and have now recived a response from them which indicates that the debt details are correct... Please phone us ...”
03.01.13 letter to Freds .
“Thank you for your letter dated 19 December 2012, in which you have asked me to telephone you. Please be aware that I will only communicate with you in writing.
You state that your client has indicated that the alleged debt details are correct. However I informed them by letter dated 7 September 2012 that they had failed to comply with my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 to supply a true copy of the executed credit agreement.
Your clients have stated in a letter to me dated 25 September 2012 that they do not retain the originals of signed agreements which are returned to them. They further state that they will not enter into any further correspondence regarding the provision of copy agreements.
We appear therefore to be at an impasse over this disputed matter. Furthermore, I note from your letter to me dated 11 October 2012 that you were no longer instructed to act in connection with this matter. I am not clear therefore why you have begun writing to me again. “
Subsequent letter dated and postmarked 31/12/12 from Bryan Carter Solicitors.
“ Our Client: Capital One: Balance: £445.00
We write with regard to this outstanding debt.
Payment must be made in full within the next fourteen days failing which we will recommend to our client that proceedings be issued without further notice.
Should proceedings be issued, additional charges will be added to the existing balance as shown below.
If you dispute liability for this debt please state your reasons in writing and supply us with documents in support of your defence to any claim.
Before the account is referred to us to litigate you still have an opportunity to contact Fredrickson International Ltd with your payment proposals. In order to avoid further action you should telephone them immediately.
This is a serious matter and you may wish to seek independent legal advice.”

09/01/13 Sold w i Dispute letter to Bryan Carter.
10/01/13 received letter dated 07/01/13 from Freds. (Precis)- “Re your letter 03/01/13 – We were no longer instructed, now we are …. client advises CCA 74 request complied with in their letter of 17/08/12 … trust this clarifies .. . look forward to payment proposals by 28/01/13 … collection activity may resume”

I will wait to see if Bryan Carter respond prior to 28/01/13.

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Thanks vint1954 for the reply.

[vint1954]

Re: Which Way to Go?

generally in small claims cases they cannot claim costs.

This may differ with minor costs to actually put the claim in court, but they probably wont get solicitors costs for the case itself

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Hi all.

I wonder if someone with legal knowledge can answer this for me. I read on another site that "if your alleged debt is less than £5,000 it will be dealt with by the Small Claims section of the Court. Generally, solicitors costs are not recoverable in such claims."

Is this correct? The reason I ask is that in the letter from Bryan Carter Solicitors (reproduced in my post allaboutFORUMS - View Single Post - Which Way to Go? ) it said that
"Should proceedings be issued additional charges will be added -
Interest £37. 25
Court Fees £30.00
Solicitor Costs £50.00 "

I appreciate that they are trying to scare me into coughing up, but are they also telling porkies? It would be useful to know, if they are.

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

I've got a few days to ponder on it and, as mentioned above, I did write to Freds on 03/01/13. That MAY bring a response in the meanwhile.

Thanks for your further comments.