Which Way to Go?

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

my BOS cc is with wetcloths, on sending them a UE no CCA valid letter, they wrote back telling me" BOS state that as the account was over 6 years old they don't have to send me one" and how do I intend paying

I had a letter from BoS a year ago saying that as they can't produce the original T&C's they won't seek to enforce. They still haven't produced them.

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Another update:-

Bank account LLoydsTSB – originally TSB a/c opened 80's
Balance approx. £2140
Last full monthly repayment May 2010
DMP payments since then.
Last DMP payment May 2012.
Being administered by SCM Solicitors for bank.

This is not really an overdraft account, it was a TSB (revolving credit) account allowing up to 30 times the monthly transfer from the current account. I have not so far sent a CCA request in respect of this account.

Letters dated 12/9/12From LloydsTSB and Apex Credit Management in the same envelope. Apex have been instructed to arrange collection of the outstanding amount. I note that the letters are referring to this as a current account, which it is most definitely not.
18/9/12- voicemail message from Apex - "Contact us."
26/09/12 sent CCA Request to Apex, pointing out that this is not a current account, and also incorporating a request to stop the harassing phone calls (which I had not been picking up).
01/10/12 received Apex letter dated 27/09/12 (Re CCA request) “In relation to the aforementioned account, we can confirm that we are unable to obtain copies of the required documentation from the original creditor in order to comply with your request due to the fact that your account is a current account and no copies of agreements are available on these types of accounts and therefore your request does not fall under sections 77-79 of the CCA Act of 1974.”

(NOTE: Most of interim history comment omitted on this occasion)

04/10/12. Letter sent to Apex, reiterating that this is not a current account and repeating that it falls under CCA 1974 so I require the info.
Received a letter from LTSB dated 04/10/12. "Thank you for contacting us about a Personal Loan. (I didn't)Unfortunately we are unable to trace an account held by you here at the Loan Centre.”
Apex letter 09/10/12. “With reference to your recent dispute, we can confirm your account is currently under referal (sic), with our request for a Copy of Agreement, Statement of Accounts and Terms and Conditions due to be supplied by Lloyds Banking Group.”
22/10/12 Apex letter (Precis of longish letter) - “OC states that this was originally a current account, and as the debt relates to a current account CCA 1974 does not apply.
For your convenience, the £1 payment has been used to reduce your outstanding indebtedness. If you disagree we will arrange for the £1 to be returned to you.”
07/11/12 letter to Apex. - “I can prove this is not my current account ….. Use of my £1 is clearly against the express purpose for which it was sent....Require you to recover the sum from where you have posted it, and to apply it to my Consumer Credit Act 1974 request.”
12/11/12 Apex letter – (Precis) “We're just piggy in the middle, reliant on LTSB info supplied. We have requested account documentation …. until any uncertainty regarding the debt is removed all collection activity will be suspended.
Until docs received, propose to leave the £1 on your account … if docs show that account doesn't fall under CCA 74, your £1 can either remain on the account or be returned to you.
15/01/13 Letter on LTSB letterhead (but posted in Stockport) - “ As we haven't been able to agree a repayment plan we've transferred the account to Moorcroft DCA..... Please contact Moorcroft.....”
19/01/13 Moorcroft letter – Same content as the 28/12/12 letter to spent2much here ->> allaboutFORUMS - View Single Post - spent2much UE diary
24/01/13 Sent letter to Apex demanding they acknowledge misappropriation of my £1 and confirm that the transaction has been reversed.
30/01/13 SWID sent to Moorcroft.
02/02/13 rec'd Moorcroft 30/01/13 letter - "POSSIBLE FURTHER ACTION". As this crossed with my letter I am simply filing it.
(31/01/13 Apex letter - "Investigating your concerns ... will write to you again .....enc copy of our internal Complaint Procedure ...." 20/02/13 Argumentative final response from Apex, but enclosing refund of £1. I was not entirely happy, so sent Apex a further letter and finally got a letter with a satisfactory statement that the original £1 had been removed from the account.)
01/02/13 Moorcroft letter - " thank you ... letter requesting copy of the credit agreement. (No!) However under CCA74 you must pay £1 fee ... if you submit payment we will gladly process your request." They have returned with it my SWID letter of 30/01/13.

Update:

20/02/13 returned my SWID letter to Moorcroft, telling them to read it properly.
27/02/13 Moorcroft letter - "Communicating with client - meanwhile follow-up action suspended."
15/06/13 Moorcroft letter - " ... advised that this is for a bank account which does not have an executed agreement. Further to this sections 77 78 CCA74 do not apply as it is not a credit agreement"
28/06/13 letter to Moorcroft pointing that they have been misinformed, and the information given to a previous agent was also incorrect, and that I can prove if necessary that this does not relate to my current account, as they have alleged.
02/07/13 Moorcroft letter - "Communicating with our client ... follow-up action suspended."
12/08/13 Moorcroft letter - "POSSIBLE FURTHER ACTION"
20/08/13 letter to Moorcroft referring to previous correspondence, and their last letter.
28/08/13 Moorcroft letter - "Moorcroft no longer responsible for collection ..."
20/09/13 letter purporting to come from LTSB - "We've transferred your LTSB CURRENT ACCOUNT to Robinson Way ..."
25/09/13 'Nice' introductory letter from RobWay enclosing a financial statement form which I can complete and return with my payment offer. (As if!) Three unanswered calls and a voicemail message from Robway since.

[nightwatch]

Re: Which Way to Go?

my BOS cc is with wetcloths, on sending them a UE no CCA valid letter, they wrote back telling me" BOS state that as the account was over 6 years old they don't have to send me one" and how do I intend paying

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Hi folks. Not much of import in recent developments on the accounts, but time for a few updates anyway, so here's the first.

Credit card 3 Bank of Scotland. – Taken out early 90's
Balance approx. £13,200
Last full monthly repayment May 2010
DMP payments since then.
Last DMP payment May 2012.
Being administered originally by Blair Oliver Scott

2/8/12 CCA letter sent.
14/8/12 date of BoS response – Niddy says Unenforceable.
20/8/12 date of letter from Blair Oliver Scott “Contact us within 5 days, or else.”.
28/8/12 Missing Prescribed Terms letter sent to BoS.
29/8/12 Account in Dispute/Harassment & Threat of Doorstep Visit letter sent to Blair O.S.
4/9/12 received letter dated 28/8/12 from Blair O.S. - "Notice of Intended Court Action. Sum claimed due by 4/9/12."
15/9/12 Letter from Bank of Scotland (dated 22 May 2012) in response to my Missing Prescribed Terms letter of 28/08/12. They said that as they cannot produce the original T&Cs they will not seek to enforce, however even if an agreement is unenforceable it is not void and they will continue with normal collections activities.
Letter dated 19/9/12 from BoS Credit Operations Rosyth (but with a Salford return address) "We have arranged for Robinson Way to collect the outstanding amount."
Letter dated 24/9/12 from Robinson Way, Salford - "Important... do not ignore. If you do not agree a payment plan with us we may advise our client to start court action. .......... This account may continue to be a worry for you ........ Unpaid debts don't just go away."
25/9/12. Voicemail message from Rob-Way - "Contact us."
26/09/12 letter to RobWay enclosing copy of BoS letter of 15/09/12 (above), also requesting phone calls cease.
RobWay letter 03/10/12 - “We note that BoS confirmed they will continue normal collections.”Ignored.
RobWay letter 04/10/12 - “We are authorised to negotiate repayment of the account with you ...ACT NOW!”Ignored.
BoS letter 30/10/12 “We've transferred your BoS Credit Card to RobWay. Please contact RobWay ...”Ignored.
RobWay letter 02/11/12 - "Important... do not ignore. If you do not agree a payment plan with us we may advise our client to start court action. .......... This account may continue to be a worry for you ........ Unpaid debts don't just go away."Ignored.
RobWay letter 14/11/12 - “Immediate Action Required …Call us.... if you fail to pay and neglect to deal with this account further action may be taken to recover the amount due.”Ignored.
RobWay letter 28/11/12 - “Ring us today, we can agree a reduced balance you can pay to settle, and you may even be able to pay the reduced amount by instalments you can afford. ...”
Ignored.
Robway letter 12/12/12 - “APPOINTMENT FOR HOME VISIT. ...May be sent to our local rep in 10 days ….”
20/12/12 sent Threat of Doorstep Visit letter to RobWay.
Horwich Farrelly (Sols) letter 31/12/12 (from Robway's address) - “Creditor BOS. We have been instructed by the above…. Court action may be taken... you can avoid court proceedings ... Payment and proposals to Robway. Remember, Court action may increase the amount you owe ….”
08/01/13 sent Letter Previously Confirming No CCA to Horwich Farrelly.

19/01/13 and 24/01/13 letters rec'd from BoS and Wetcloths “we've transferred your Bank of Scotland credit card to Wetcloths ….”
30/01/13 sent SWID to Wetcloths.
12/02/13 Wetcloths letter acknowledging query and suspending collections activity while under investigation. Filed.
09/03/13 Wetcloths - “FINAL NOTICE – We have not received a reply to our previous correspondence … threat, threat ….” WTF?? Silly sods.
19/03/13 Nelson Guest Solicitors letter(return address Huddersfield not Sidcup) - "Offer to reduce the amount payable ...limited period .... contact Wetcloths by ...... or further action will continue ...." Filed.
29/03/13 Nelson Guest letter (return address Huddersfield not Sidcup) - "Whilst Wetcloths still willing to consider realistic options ....." (10 day deadline or further recovery action will be taken).

Update:

09/04/13 letter sent to Wetcloths telling them to address the issues raised in my letter of 30/01 and to tell Nelson Guest to stop writing to me.
09/04/13 (received 13/04) Wetcloths doorstep collection notice.
16/04/13 sent Harassment/Threat of Doorstep Visit letter to Wetcloths.
19/04/13 Wetcloths letter acknowledging query and suspending collections activity while under investigation(Identical to 12/02/13 letter - Filed)
20/08/13 Wetcloths letter – almost identical to their previous one. (Filed)
30/08/13 Wetcloths letter confirming account remains on hold. (Filed)

05/09/13 Bank of Scotland letter referring to my recent communication and enclosing a copy of my signed application. It is so small that the printed part is illegible, but it appears to be just that – an application (single page). I don't think there are any Terms there at all. However, I will still send to Niddy for a quick look.
05/09/13 A separate letter purporting to come from Bank of Scotland advising that they have transferred my BoSCC to Firstsource Solutions. In the same envelope an introductory letter from Firstsource. There have since been 5 unanswered calls which - on checking Whocallsme.com - were from Firstsource. No further letters from them yet.

[Deepie]

Re: Which Way to Go?

That seems a good suggestion Deepie, as none of their letters referred specifically to my last letter. I could refer to my prevous letter, but not specify which one. May cause a little confusion.

Well.....That's what I'd do...

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

or a one liner .....referring them to your previous letter..... I would save that one for later

That seems a good suggestion Deepie, as none of their letters referred specifically to my last letter. I could refer to my prevous letter, but not specify which one. May cause a little confusion.

[Deepie]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Hi folks, an update -



Update:

17/07/13 Arden letter - “We would like to speak to you about your account …...” - Ignored.
19/08/13 Arden letter - “FINAL DEMAND – (identical to their 11/02 letter) - ...concerned that you persist in
refusing to address the outstanding balance …. no option but to review account for further action … may mean home visit or referral to our solicitors ….. review in 7 days.”

They have already had a MPT letter and two SWID letters, so I need to consider my next
response. I think possibly
http://www.all-about-debt.co.uk/inde...e-cca-received

Any comments welcomed as always.

or a one liner .....referring them to your previous letter..... I would save that one for later

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Hi folks, an update -

Credit card 1 MBNA. – Taken out early 90's
Balance approx. £12,000
Last full monthly repayment May 2010
DMP payments since then.
“Sold” to Idem Capital securities
Ltd (Paragon Personal Finance Ltd) by lender beginning 2012
Last DMP payment May 2012.

02/08/12 CCA request sent.
01/09/12 Idem sent copy application. Niddy says EN.
However -
12/09/12 Missing Prescribed Terms letter sent.
23/10/12 Idem letter - “We need to speak with you – please contact us ...” No other comments. Ignored.
30/10/12. Idem letter “account will now be transferred to Arden Credit Management …...”Ignored.
01/11/12. Arden letter “ ...We have assumed responsibility for working with you to repay this amount….”Ignored
12/11/12. Idem statement of account since 27/01/12 “in compliance with CCA 1974.”Ignored.
15/11/12. Arden letter “Failure to come to an acceptable arrangement with us could result in us taking further action … the options available to us are: Sending a rep to your address; Passing your account to our
solicitors to obtain Judgment and seek enforcement action in line with your circumstances. The above actions have the potential of increasing your current balance” (due to charges).
18+ missed calls and voicemail messages from Arden since 15/11/12, including one from a withheld
number. Told them if they wish to communicate they must do it in writing, yet the calls continued.
23/11/12 sent SWID letter, incorporating “no more phone calls”, to Arden.
26/11/12 Arden letter - “Present situation of non-payment not acceptable …. should you choose to do nothing we may have to take further action ….”
10/12/12 Referred Arden to my letter dated 23/11/12.
21/01/13Arden letter (Rec'd 26/01) - “very concerned you have not taken steps to address outstanding
balance … failure … could result in further action: options available to us are – sending representative to call on you; passing your account to our solicitors to obtain judgment and seek enforcement action ( could include charging orders and attachment of earnings) … CCJs affect your credit rating … extremely urgent, you should not ignore.”Identical to their 15/11/12 letter.
28/01/13 received undated Arden letter enclosing I&E form. “... Please complete ….”
01/02/13 Arden letter (rec'd 07/02) – identical to their letter of 26/11/12.-Ignored
11/02/13 - FINAL DEMAND letter from Arden.
02/03/13 Sent Arden another SWID letter.
08/03/13 Arden letter (Rec'd 14/03/13) - "As we have not been able to contact you ... necessary to appoint Resolvecall to attend your property ...."
15/03/13 Sent Doorstep letter, incorporating comment concerning 3 letters sent by me, but not acknowledged in their letters, and also reminding contact in writing only.
12/03/13 Arden letter (Rec'd 15/03/13) - "Thank you for your complaint .... we will be conducting a thorough investigation into your concerns ....." - This is in reply to my SWID letter, which they are actually addressing this time.
14/03/13 Arden letter (Complaints handler/conciliator) - rec'd 19/03/13 "....Our Findings - copy of loan agreement was sent to you .... We are confident that the documentation has been properly drawn and is wholly enforceable. .... we will not be releasing you from any obligation. .... final response under complaints procedure ....FOS guide enclosed."This letter doesn't call for any action on my part, so I think I will just file.
15/03/13 Arden letter (rec'd 19/03/13) - "Please find further copy of your loan agreement. Please contact us to discuss
your payment proposals. Failure ... may result in further action." All that was enclosed was a copy of most recent Terms. I read this as a request to phone them "to discuss". As I have already informed them
that I will only deal with them in writing - filed.
18/05/13 Idem letter - “On receipt of this letter please contact us on….. we need to discuss your account …....” (signed by manager at Arden)
22/05/13 Idem letter, by recorded delivery – (Refers to my original CCA letter of last summer, and apologises for delay in responding) “In compliance with CCA request we enclose a copy of the executed
agreement, a copy of the T&Cs and a statement of account. We trust that this meets with your requirements.” (signed by case handler, Idem) What they have sent appears to be identical to what they sent to me 9 months ago. No response sent.

Update:

17/07/13 Arden letter - “We would like to speak to you about your account …...” - Ignored.
19/08/13 Arden letter - “FINAL DEMAND – (identical to their 11/02 letter) - ...concerned that you persist in refusing to address the outstanding balance …. no option but to review account for further action … may mean home visit or referral to our solicitors ….. review in 7 days.”

They have already had a MPT letter and two SWID letters, so I need to consider my next response. I think possibly
http://www.all-about-debt.co.uk/inde...e-cca-received

Any comments welcomed as always.

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

The discounts don't matter. If they haven't sent you a compliant cca then it's UE...and you're not going to pay a UE debt, are you

Nope. I was just commenting.

[Pixie]

Re: Which Way to Go?

I always send SWID when I have the first letter from a new dca so I would have sent it after Westcot's letter on 5/6/13.

The discounts don't matter. If they haven't sent you a compliant cca then it's UE...and you're not going to pay a UE debt, are you

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Hi all. An update -

Credit card 4 Mint/RBS. – Taken out during 90's (I think)
Balance approx. £8,750
Last full monthly repayment May 2010
DMP payments since then.
Last DMP payment May 2012.
Being administered by lender


02/08/12 CCA 1974 request sent to RBS
15/08/12 Reply received from Mint re CCA request. They have returned my postal order, and the gist of their letter is"I am unable to deal with your request due to, (ticked as appropriate)
s78 request received, however this has been returned to you as we require your signature before we can proceed. Please sign your request for information and return ....."
29/08/12 sent CCA Request - Demand of Signature by Creditor letter to Mint/RBS.
05/09/12 RBS letter- "THIS IS A FINAL DEMAND FOR PAYMENT - We currently require (the full amount) from you. If we do not receive a payment within the next 14 days, the account will be sent to a debt collection agent. Even at this late stage ........ discuss a repayment programme"
15/09/12 sent RBS a brief letter reminding that CCA 1974 request is outstanding.
29/10/12 RBS letter - “Details have been passed to Moorcroft to act as collection agent.” - Ignored.
24/11/12 Moorcroft letter - “IMPORTANT INFORMATION – POSSIBLE FURTHER ACTION. …. please send your payment proposal ….. if not … recommend possible further debt recovery action. Contact us now …. in certain circumstances we may be able to offer a substantial discount ...” - Ignored.
11/12/12 Moorcroft letter - “Monthly Instalment Offer …... An illustration of the kind of figure ...£120 per month … clear balance in 73 months … failure to respond ... recommend taking further debt recovery action ...Do not ignore this letter.”
18/12/12 Sent Account Sold w i Dispute letter to Moorcroft
27/12/12 letter from Midas Credit Services - “WARNING OF POSSIBLE FURTHER ACTION - We are part of the Moorcroft Group ….. As no agreement has been reached we have been asked to review your account to consider the steps which may be taken ….. options include recommending one of the following: Continue our attempts to contact you by letter and phone; …. arrange to call at your home address; … referral for consideration by our Litigation Selection Team. To prevent … you must contact Moorcroft ….Failure to contact Moorcroft ….”
08/01/13 Letter to Midas CSreferring them to my letter to Moorcroft Debt Recovery dated 18/12/12.
09/01/13 Letter from MoorcroftHome Collections Division - “DISCOUNT OFFER - ….failed to make any payment to us ...passed to Home Collections Division for action. This may involve local rep calling at your home....
client has authorised us to consider a discounted settlement figure …Depending on your circumstances we may be able to offer you; A reduction of up to 20% subject to your personal circumstances ...Greater discounts may be available to you and can often vary, dependent on your personal circumstances ….The option of paying the agreed settlement figure over a period of up to 3 months subject to terms & conditions. …if no satisfactory arrangement made with us or our local representative … recommend to our client ...commence further recovery action.”
17/01/13 letter to Moorcroft reminding them that a/c SWID along with a Doorstep Visit letter.
17/01/13 Moorcroft letter (received 22/01/13) - “ Thank you for your recently received letter requesting a copy of your credit agreement( No!) … client has confirmed that you must put your request in writing to the following address ….”

28/02/13 sent letter in response to further follow up from Moorcroft, pointing out that I had already twice requested CCA info from RBS along with fee.
04/03/13 Moorcroft letter. They are communicating with client and meantime action will be suspended.Filed
12/03/13 Moorcroft letter - "Client advises that they have received your CCA request, however they have requested that you sign your request ......" As I had already sent a Demand of Signature by Creditor letter direct to RBS months ago - Filed.

Update:
17/05/13 Mint letter advising account now to Westcot as new collection agent. Filed.
05/06/13 Westcot letter with red banner header. "Notice of debt collection ..... you must contact us ASAP .... failure to do so ...further recovery action." - Filed.
15/06/13 Westcot letter - "Final Notice ..... now confirmed that you are still resident .... unless you contact us in next 10 days .... further recovery action ..." - Filed.
25/06/13 Westcot letter - "Reduced Settlement Offer (no figure mentioned) .... limited period .... unless blah blah ... 10 days .... further recovery action will be taken." - Ignoring for the present.


Any comments welcomed, as always. This is the 3rd time (2nd agent) I have been offered the possibility of a discount on this one. Send SWID now, or await next letter?

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Tempting isn't it?

[nightwatch]

Re: Which Way to Go?

could you not be just as cheeky and say "as you consider their clients are mistaken, this account is still in dispute" and thank them for their written confirmation that they will not be contacting you again about the matter,

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Or just a one liner stating you have made your position clear in your letter dates 24th June. Then just wait and see what comes next.

Thats a good idea, and adds to the paper trail. Thanks Vint1954
(Perhaps I should say I won't entertain any further correspondence on the matter )

[vint1954]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Hi folks, an update:


Update:

24/06/13 sent Creditor Refusal to Accept UE letter.
26/06/13 Freds letter - “We reiterate our letters to you dated xx/xx/13 and xx/xx/13. (I have nothing from them under the first date, it is in fact the date of my letter sent to them in May.)
Client confirms they wrote on xx/xx/13 advising that they had fully complied with CCA obligations and agreement remains enforceable. Clients position is that outstanding balance above is due. (This paragraph is identical to their last letter.)
….. we confirm no further correspondence will be accepted or entered into in relation to the above matter.”


I need to consider how to respond next, but for the moment I think I will hang fire, as there were no specific demands made, and await their next letter. In the meantime I would be grateful for any thoughts as to how to play this next.

Possibly send http://www.all-about-debt.co.uk/inde...e-cca-received ??

Or just a one liner stating you have made your position clear in your letter dates 24th June. Then just wait and see what comes next.