Which Way to Go?

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Another wee update:-

Credit card 2 MBNA. – Taken out early 90's
Balance approx. £8,500
Last full monthly repayment May 2010
DMP payments since then.
Last DMP payment May 2012.
Sold by MBNA to Idem Capital securities Ltd beginning of 2012. // Sold by Idem to Arrow Global end of 2015.


02/08/12CCA request sent to Idem.
No response until Idem letter 20/10/12 “ We need to speak with you . We do not have an ongoing payment arrangement in place upon your account. As a consequence of this your account will be reviewed for placement with an external DCA within the next 7 days. …... Please contact us ...” Ignored.
Several letters back and forth until
14/12/12Idem letter enclosing response to CCA request of 02/08/12. Niddy says EN. (


(Snip) -----------

Dec 2012 to Jan 2015 - Letters from variously Arden/Resolvecall/Fredricksons/Idem/Mackenzie Hall/Robinson Way. Responded to them all with various template letters.
(Full history can be seen at post #379.)
---------------


Then silence until
Jan 2016 – Notice of Assignment from Arrow (sent to old address) - “Arrow Global purchased your account from Idem …. please contact Capquest ….”
Feb 2016 – Introductory letter from Capquest (sent to old address). - Filed
Mar 2016 – Letter from Capquest (sent to old address)- “Please get in touch ...” - Filed
April 2016 – Introductory letter from Capquest (sent to current address). - Filed.
May 2016 – Letter from Capquest (sent to current address) - “We'd like to hear from you ...” - Filed.
Aug 2016 – Phishing letter from Shoosmiths (sent to old address, re: me at current address). - Filed.
Aug 2016 – Sent CCA74 request to Capquest.
Aug 2016 – Capquest returned CCA fee - “Account has been closed on our system and referred back to Arrow.”
Aug 2016 – belated notice from Arrow (sent to old address) Change of Agency - Shoosmiths now managing account. - Filed
Aug 2016 – Introductory letter from Shoosmiths (sent to old address). - Filed
Sept 2016 – Letter from S'smiths (sent to old address) - “Possible reduction in balance or agree regular instalments.”
Sept 2016 – Letter from S'smiths (sent to old address) - considered to be a LBA

Update:

Sept 2016 - sent CCA74 request to Arrow, and LBA response to S'smiths.
Oct 2016 - S'smiths reply to LBA, very similar to reply in respect of other account above.

Will wait to see what documents they produce for this one.

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

I got one of those last year, I'm still waiting for a reply xx

I hope I have to wait as long.

[nightwatch]

Re: Which Way to Go?

I got one of those last year, I'm still waiting for a reply xx

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Hi folks - an update:

Credit card 1 MBNA. – Taken out early 90's
Balance approx. £12,000
Last full monthly repayment May 2010
DMP payments following that.
Last DMP payment May 2012.
Soldby MBNA to Idem Capital securities Ltd beginning 2012.// Sold by Idem to Arrow Global end 2015.


02/08/12 CCA request sent.
01/09/12 Idem sent copy application. Niddy says EN.
However -
12/09/12 Missing Prescribed Terms letter sent.
23/10/12 Idem letter - “We need to speak with you – please contact us ...” No other comments. Ignored.

(Snip) ------------
From Oct 2012 to Dec 2014, extensive correspondence from (variously) Idem/Arden Credit Management/Mackenzie Hall/Robinson Way. Batted them all away using various template letters.
(For full history, see post 378).

After a year's silence -
Jan 2016 - Notice of Assignment received (sent to current address) “Arrow Global purchased your account from Idem securities … please contact Capquest Debt Recovery ...”
Feb & March '16 – Two letters from Capquest (sent to old address). - Ignored.
Aug '16 – Letter from Arrow (sent to old address) - “Change of Agency – Shoosmiths will be managing account on behalf of Arrow ...” - Filed.
Aug '16 – Letter from Shoosmiths (sent to old address) - Their client may be prepared to accept a lump sum payment less than the full amount in the short term. Alternatively, their client is prepared to consider instalments, conditional on completion of an I&E form. - Filed.
Sept '16 – Letter from Shoosmiths (sent to old address) – includes a paragraph essentially saying if I don't contact them they may be instructed to issue court proceedings which will include a claim for costs. If a judgment is obtained, they may be instructed to enforce, possibly with a charging order or a deduction from earnings order(I'm retired and don't own a property). . - Filed.
Sept '16 – Letter from Shoosmiths (sent to old address) – Treated as LBA.

Update:
Sept. 2016 Sent CCA74 letter to Arrow, and LBA response to S'smiths.
Oct 2016 - reply from S'smiths- see attached.



Will wait to see what they come up with.

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Hi folks - an update -

Originally Posted by Still Waving
Credit card 4 Mint/RBS. – Taken out during 90's (I think)
Balance approx. £8,750
Last full monthly repayment May 2010
DMP payments since then.
Last DMP payment May 2012.
Being administered by lender/Moorcroft/Midas/Westcot/Regal (prior to being sold on). Then -
Sold by RBS to Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd May 2016.

02/08/12 CCA 1974 request sent to RBS
15/08/12 Reply received from Mint re CCA request. They have returned my postal order, and the gist of their letter is"I am unable to deal with your request due to, (ticked as appropriate)
s78 request received, however this has been returned to you as we require your signature before we can proceed. Please sign your request for information and return ....."
29/08/12 sent CCA Request - Demand of Signature by Creditor letter to Mint/RBS.
05/09/12 RBS letter- "THIS IS A FINAL DEMAND FOR PAYMENT - We currently require (the full amount) from you. If we do not receive a payment within the next 14 days, the account will be sent to a debt collection agent. Even at this late stage ........ discuss a repayment programme"
15/09/12 sent RBS a brief letter reminding that CCA 1974 request is outstanding.
29/10/12 RBS letter - “Details have been passed to Moorcroft to act as collection agent.” - Ignored.
24/11/12 Moorcroft letter - “IMPORTANT INFORMATION – POSSIBLE FURTHER ACTION. …. please send your payment proposal ….. if not … recommend possible further debt recovery action. Contact us now …. in certain circumstances we may be able to offer a substantial discount ...” - Ignored.11/12/12 Moorcroft letter - “Monthly Instalment Offer …... An illustration of the kind of figure ...£120 per month … clear balance in 73 months … failure to respond ... recommend taking further debt recovery action ...Do not ignore this letter.”
18/12/12 Sent Account Sold w i Dispute letter to Moorcroft
27/12/12 letter from Midas Credit Services - “WARNING OF POSSIBLE FURTHER ACTION - We are part of the Moorcroft Group ….. As no agreement has been reached we have been asked to review your account to consider the steps which may be taken ….. options include recommending one of the following: Continue our attempts to contact you by letter and phone; …. arrange to call at your home address; … referral for consideration by our Litigation Selection Team. To prevent … you must contact Moorcroft ….Failure to contact Moorcroft ….”
08/01/13 Letter to Midas CSreferring them to my letter to Moorcroft Debt Recovery dated 18/12/12.
09/01/13 Letter from MoorcroftHome Collections Division - “DISCOUNT OFFER - ….failed to make any payment to us ...passed to Home Collections Division for action. This may involve local rep calling at your home....
client has authorised us to consider a discounted settlement figure …Depending on your circumstances we may be able to offer you; A reduction of up to 20% subject to your personal circumstances ...Greater discounts may be available to you and can often vary, dependent on your personal circumstances ….The option of paying the agreed settlement figure over a period of up to 3 months subject to terms & conditions. …if no satisfactory arrangement made with us or our local representative … recommend to our client ...commence further recovery action.”
17/01/13 letter to Moorcroft reminding them that a/c SWID along with a Doorstep Visit letter.
17/01/13 Moorcroft letter (received 22/01/13) - “ Thank you for your recently received letter requesting a copy of your credit agreement( No!) … client has confirmed that you must put your request in writing to the following address ….”
28/02/13 sent letter in response to further follow up from Moorcroft, pointing out that I had already twice requested CCA info from RBS along with fee.
04/03/13 Moorcroft letter. They are communicating with client and meantime action will be suspended. Filed
12/03/13 Moorcroft letter - "Client advises that they have received your CCA request, however they have requested that you sign your request ......" As I had already sent a Demand of Signature by Creditor letter direct to RBS months ago - Filed.
17/05/13 Mint letter advising account now to Westcot as new collection agent. - Filed.
05/06/13 Westcot letter with red banner header."Notice of debt collection ..... you must contact us ASAP .... failure to do so ...further recovery action." - Filed.
15/06/13 Westcot letter - "Final Notice ..... now confirmed that you are still resident .... unless you contact us in next 10 days .... further recovery action ..." - Filed.
25/06/13 Westcot letter - "Reduced Settlement Offer (no figure mentioned) .... limited period .... unless blah blah ... 10 days .... further recovery action will be taken."- Filed.
10/07/13 Westcot letter - "The opportunity to take control of your outstanding balance ..... take control with repayments that you agree and that you can afford over a period of time ..... no further phone calls, letters etc etc ......" - Filed.
20/07/13 Westcot letter - "Doorstep Collection Notice .......... instructions will now be provided to Credit Security ...." - Filed.
30/07/13 Westcot letter - "Instructions have now been provided (doorstep collection visit) to our agent Credit Security ....." - Filed
31/07/13 Credit Security letter - "blah, blah .... within 10 days ... doorstep collector ...."
07/08/13 letter to Credit Securities - "Threat of Doorstep Visit (and btw, in dispute with RBS)".
16/08/13 Credit Security letter - referred back to clients for instruction.
06/12/13 Regal Credit Consultants letter - "Details passed to us by RBS ..... will contact you during next 7 days by letter and/or phone ......"
A few missed calls and voicemails from Regal Credit Consultants.
30/12/13 Regal CC letter - "As we have not been notified of any reason for non-payment, our client has instructed us to collect ... in full to avoid any further debt recovery action .... we will work with you .... arrangement that is affordable and sustainable ..... it is in your own interest to contact us to discuss this matter"
09/01/14 sent SWID letter to Regal CC.
23/01/14 letter received from Mint/RBS, shown in #333 above -Link- (sent to my old address) following my SWID letter sent to Regal Credit Consultants using my current address.
04/03/14 sent letter to Mint - a tweaked Niddy Special, telling them they are playing silly buggers, they still have my CCA request & fee, I'm not signing anything, they know who I am, and their agents have been writing to my current address with sensitive info for months.
07/03/14 Mint reply (sent to my current address) - identical to the last one except the paragraph relating to change of address has been cut.
10.04.14 Letter to Mint reiterating my position as set out in last letter.
15.04.14 Mint letter - Identical to their previous one.

Update:
May 2016 - Notice of assignment on RBS letterhead - "We have sold the account to Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd. They have instructed Cabot Financial Europe to manage the account. Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd is licensed ...." - Is it still problematic for CF(UK) to be buying debt in the first half of 2016? There is a corresponding letter from Cabot, but neither one actually gives a date of assignment.
June 2016 - Cabot letter - "Taking positive first steps ...." - Filed
June 2016 - Cabot letter - "Your outstanding balance is waiting to be paid ..." - Filed
Aug 2016 - Cabot letter - "Our offer to you ..... We are prepared to reduce the balance ..." - Filed .All these letters state that the current creditor is Cab Fin (UK) Ltd
Sept 2016 - Cabot, half yearly statement of account. - Ahh, this states date assigned 3 May 2016.

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

From your post above, it looks like Capquest were writing at your current address but when they passed on the account to Arrow/Shoosmiths, they started writing to your old address again, which is rather odd. Having read the article above, one could be forgiven for assuming it's been done intentionally. When you respond to the LBA, your letter will be headed with your new address, so they will have no excuse to say they were not aware of it. Rather than asking Arrow to stay action by Shoosmiths, I'd add a paragraph to the LBA response to Shoosmiths, saying that a s.78 request has been sent to arrow and you are awaiting their response.

It does make one wonder. Also, S'smiths clearly had my current address as they sent a phishing letter to my old address, quoting the current address and asking if I am the same person. The CCA letter was posted this afternoon, and the LBA I will be sending does include that I have written to Arrow, and suggesting that they refer back to their client. I can amend that slightly as suggested.

[BuzzyBee]

Re: Which Way to Go?

From your post above, it looks like Capquest were writing at your current address but when they passed on the account to Arrow/Shoosmiths, they started writing to your old address again, which is rather odd. Having read the article above, one could be forgiven for assuming it's been done intentionally. When you respond to the LBA, your letter will be headed with your new address, so they will have no excuse to say they were not aware of it. Rather than asking Arrow to stay action by Shoosmiths, I'd add a paragraph to the LBA response to Shoosmiths, saying that a s.78 request has been sent to arrow and you are awaiting their response.

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Updating diary with this other account.

Credit card 2 MBNA. – Taken out early 90's
Balance approx. £8,500
Last full monthly repayment May 2010
DMP payments since then.
Last DMP payment May 2012.
Sold by MBNA to Idem Capital securities Ltd beginning of 2012. // Sold by Idem to Arrow Global end of 2015.


02/08/12CCA request sent to Idem.
No response until Idem letter 20/10/12 “ We need to speak with you . We do not have an ongoing payment arrangement in place upon your account. As a consequence of this your account will be reviewed for placement with an external DCA within the next 7 days. …... Please contact us ...” Ignored.
Several letters back and forth until
14/12/12Idem letter enclosing response to CCA request of 02/08/12. Niddy says EN. (


(Snip) -----------


Dec 2012 to Jan 2015 - Letters from variously Arden/Resolvecall/Fredricksons/Idem/Mackenzie Hall/Robinson Way. Responded to them all with various template letters.
(Full history can be seen at post #379.)
---------------

Update:
Then silence until
Jan 2016 – Notice of Assignment from Arrow (sent to old address) - “Arrow Global purchased your account from Idem …. please contact Capquest ….”
Feb 2016 – Introductory letter from Capquest (sent to old address). - Filed
Mar 2016 – Letter from Capquest (sent to old address)- “Please get in touch ...” - Filed
April 2016 – Introductory letter from Capquest (sent to current address). - Filed.
May 2016 – Letter from Capquest (sent to current address) - “We'd like to hear from you ...” - Filed.
Aug 2016 – Phishing letter from Shoosmiths (sent to old address, re: me at current address). - Filed.
Aug 2016 – Sent CCA74 request to Capquest.
Aug 2016 – Capquest returned CCA fee - “Account has been closed on our system and referred back to Arrow.”
Aug 2016 – belated notice from Arrow (sent to old address) Change of Agency - Shoosmiths now managing account. - Filed
Aug 2016 – Introductory letter from Shoosmiths (sent to old address). - Filed
Sept 2016 – Letter from S'smiths (sent to old address) - “Possible reduction in balance or agree regular instalments.”
Sept 2016 – Letter from S'smiths (sent to old address) - considered to be a LBA (see attached)






This is an identical letter to the one for the other account mentioned a few posts ago, so I am dealing with it in the same way. I am proposing sending a CCA74 request to Arrow (also asking them to stay further action by S'smiths), and also a LBA response to S'smiths. (All recorded delivery of course).

[BuzzyBee]

Re: Which Way to Go?

I had read a similar comment by BusyBee recently on another diary, therefore I thought it better to re-start the UE process now, and see what they can come up with, rather than get a default ccj.

The vast majority of money claims end in default judgment and creditors issue claims almost taking it for granted. Can't remember whether I posted this on here, I may have done when I wrote my other post about it: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-families.html As you can see, 2,000 default judgments are being issued every day. The word "rulings" is misleading, default judgment is purely administrative and does not involve a judge or a ruling. If there is no acknowledgment of service, once the deadline is reached, the claimant can request default judgment purely on those grounds and, as long as the dates are correct, the judgment will be issued without looking at the merits of the case.

That means you can get a CCJ for a debt that's already statute barred, or even an account you never had. Yes, you can apply to have the judgment set aside, but prevention is better than cure, not least because once there is a judgment against the account, the creditor no longer has a duty to respond to a CCA request, so you can no longer use non-compliance with ss.77-79 in your defence unless you sent the CCA request before the judgment was made. It can be a bit of a catch 22 situation.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Sometimes it's best NOT to allow remedy. However in your situation you did right - things can go amiss the more it's sold-on.

Once youve advised the new address you shouldn't bang on about it. Just tell them the once. That's fine

Send CCA for other account too

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

If they issue a claim to an address where you don't live you could apply for a set-aside of any Default Judgment, but for that to be successful you would also have to demonstrate to the court that your potential Defence has good prospects of success.

If the CCAs are enforceable that may be tricky - although not impossible if there's no compliant DN etc etc.

Plan B x

I had read a similar comment by BusyBee recently on another diary, therefore I thought it better to re-start the UE process now, and see what they can come up with, rather than get a default ccj.

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

If both of these accounts are enforceable and both over £10k (one is £10k and one is £12k?) then sending a new CCA request seems the right thing to do since the debts have been sold on twice. Ditto the LBA response letter to Shoosmiths solicitors.

According to your post # 385 your original CCA requests went to MBNA who sent you the enforceable agreements. Maybe Arrow won't have access to the same paperwork this time. And maybe Shoosmiths won't be able to come up with the DN and NOA etc.

When will these debts be SB?

Plan B x

Hi PlanB

One is around 12k and the other under 9k, and both sold on twice. The original CCA requests went to Idem, who had purchased the accounts from MBNA, and they obtained the paperwork from MBNA. It is my hope that 4 years later Arrow may not be so lucky with the paperwork.

Regarding SB, the accounts were defaulted by MBNA after I commenced the DMP, the last payments to DMP were May 2012, but I am considering SB to be July/August 2018, for reasons which I can go into as SB approaches.

[PlanB]

Re: Which Way to Go?

I did point out in the the CCA andLBA response that they were writing to an old address. I was hoping to forestall a claim, as the last paperwork supplied was not UE.

There is another account which they have also written about to the old address - everything the same - and I proposing to send CCA and LBA for that one. I don't want to get a ccj by default on accounts where the paperwork may still be good..

If they issue a claim to an address where you don't live you could apply for a set-aside of any Default Judgment, but for that to be successful you would also have to demonstrate to the court that your potential Defence has good prospects of success.

If the CCAs are enforceable that may be tricky - although not impossible if there's no compliant DN etc etc.

Plan B x

[PlanB]

Re: Which Way to Go?

I am not in a strong position with these accounts, as Niddy has deemed that the copy agreements provided in September 2012 are both enforceable. My thinking is, therefore, that sending a CCA request to Capquest could forestall Shoosmiths being instructed to issue a LBA, at least for the time being. I would prefer them not to become any more involved at this stage.

If both of these accounts are enforceable and both over £10k (one is £10k and one is £12k?) then sending a new CCA request seems the right thing to do since the debts have been sold on twice. Ditto the LBA response letter to Shoosmiths solicitors.

According to your post # 385 your original CCA requests went to MBNA who sent you the enforceable agreements. Maybe Arrow won't have access to the same paperwork this time. And maybe Shoosmiths won't be able to come up with the DN and NOA etc.

When will these debts be SB?

Plan B x

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

I'd have kept shtum. They're writing at an old address!!

However, you've now sent a CCA - and an LBA response (quick reply - just put your new address. No need to tell them anything other than the content of the template), haven't you? If so - fine. Wait for the claim.

I did point out in the the CCA andLBA response that they were writing to an old address. I was hoping to forestall a claim, as the last paperwork supplied was not UE.

There is another account which they have also written about to the old address - everything the same - and I proposing to send CCA and LBA for that one. I don't want to get a ccj by default on accounts where the paperwork may still be good.

I am just about to post up that account here.