Which Way to Go?

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Hi all, an update.

Originally Posted by NotDrowningButWaving
Credit card 6 Capital 1. – Taken out during 00's prior to 2007 I believe
Balance approx. £440
Last full monthly repayment May 2010
DMP payments since then.
Last DMP payment May 2012.
Being administered by lender


02/08/12CCA request sent.
17/08/12Cap1 sent Recon agreement. Niddy said - the terms are a recon but not relevant to the product I signed up for.
07/09/12Sent Missing Prescribed Terms letter.

Two letters received from Cap1 on 01/10/12:-
First letter dated 25/09/12 – a long repetitive and waffling response to the MPT letter claiming they have fulfilled their CCA obligations. I would like to send this one to Niddy for an opinion as to how to respond.

Second letter dated 27/09/12 – Account has been referred to Fredrickson International. I shall do nothing on this one until I hear from Fredrickson in writing. So far they have attempted to contact me by phone twice in the past two days.
Letter dated 02/10/12 received from Fredrickson - "Cap1 have passed this account to us for collection ......As we have been appointed as their agent you should now make sure you contact us and not Cap1. ..... Our client now requires payment in full to avoid further action. ....You must phone us immediately ....."
08/10/12 Account Sold whilst in Dispute (including para re phone harassment) letter sent.
Fredrickson letter 11/10/12 - “We would be grateful if you will note that we are no longer instructed to act in connection with this matter. We have passed your letter to our clients and would be grateful if you will address all further correspondence with them direct.”

Since 22/11/12 there have been several calls from Fred's, some voicemail and some missed. None were responded to. Now a letter from Fred's 04/12/12 - “LETTER BEFORE ACTION ….. legal action is now being considered. Should it be necessary to issue proceedings in the County Court further additional fees will be added to the balance outstanding (fees and new balance set out)"
I have had no further correspondence from Cap1 since the original notification 27/09/12 on their letterhead (but sent from Fred's address) that Fred's had been instructed, and no correspondence from Fred's since their letter of 11/10/12 above.

Options I'm considering:
a) Refer them to their letter of 11/10/12 and ask why and on what authority they are now threatening legal action. Or
b) Send a further copy of my Sold w i Dispute letter of 08/10/12 together with a Telephone Harassment letter. Or
c) Send a Threat-o-Gram Letter Before Action response. (possibly save this one until I get confirmation that they have been officially instructed again by Cap1).

Any thoughts please?

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Hi all - an update.

Originally Posted by NotDrowningButWaving
Credit card 1 MBNA. – Taken out early 90's
Balance approx. £12,000
Last full monthly repayment May 2010
DMP payments since then.
“Sold” to Idem Capital securities Ltd (Paragon Personal Finance Ltd) by lender beginning 2012
Last DMP payment May 2012.

02/08/12 CCA request sent.
01/09/12 Idem sent copy application. Niddy says . Shock horror.
However - 12/09/12 Missing Prescribed Terms letter sent.
23/10/12 Idem letter - “We need to speak with you – please contact us ...” No other comments.

Ignored.


30/10/12. Idem letter “account will now be transferred to Arden Credit Management …...” Ignored.
01/11/12. Arden letter “ ...We have assumed responsibility for working with you to repay this amount ….” Ignored
12/11/12. Idem statement of account since 27/01/12 “in compliance with CCA 1974.” Ignored.
15/11/12. Arden letter “Failure to come to an acceptable arrangement with us could result in us taking further action … the options available to us are: Sending a rep to your address; Passing your account to our solicitors to obtain Judgment and seek enforcement action in line with your circumstances. The above actions have the potential of increasing your current balance” (due to charges).

There have been countless (18) missed calls and voicemail messages from Arden since 15/11/12, including (the only) one I picked up, from a withheld number. I told the person that if they wish to communicate they must do it in writing, yet the calls continue.

I think I should now send a Sold Whilst in Dispute letter, including a Cease the Calls paragraph? What about the reference to a doorstep visit – leave that for now, as the In Dispute should hold them for now?

Any comments please?

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Remind them again, after that, i wouldnt worry, if they dont know what the debt relates to, they sure as hell wont have any details to issue legal proceedings.

Id be taking their ignorance as a sign that you have won this one.

Thanks for your comment SXGuy. At the moment it's going around in a circle and it could end up with both sides saying " I will not enter into any further correspondence on this point."

But, if it comes to it, I think there is another avenue to flush out what they do or don't have, and which could put them on the back foot again.

[SXGuy]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Remind them again, after that, i wouldnt worry, if they dont know what the debt relates to, they sure as hell wont have any details to issue legal proceedings.

Id be taking their ignorance as a sign that you have won this one.

[ken100464]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Glad to see its not just me.

Apex are the weirdest DCA ever. Think they try to make you think you are on hallucinogenic drugs so do weird things aswell like pay.

We had a letter that said this isnt a demand to pay your account. And that was it. Nothing else no explanation nothing. Weird.

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Hi all. Another update:-

Bank overdraft account LLoydsTSB – originally TSB Moneyplan a/c opened 80's
Balance approx. £2140
Last full monthly repayment May 2010
DMP payments since then.
Last DMP payment May 2012.
Being administered by SCM Solicitors for bank.

This is not really an overdraft account, it was a TSB Moneyplan (revolving credit) account allowing up to 30 times the monthly transfer from the current account. I have not so far sent a CCA request in respect of this account.

Letters dated 12/9/12 From LloydsTSB and Apex Credit Management in the same envelope. Apex have been instructed to arrange collection of the outstanding amount. I note that the letters are referring to this as a current account, which it is most definitely not.
18/9/12 - voicemail message from Apex - "Contact us."
26/09/12 sent CCA Request to Apex, pointing out that this is not a current account, and also incorporating a request to stop the harassing phone calls (which I had not been picking up).

(NOTE: Most of interim history comment omitted on this occasion)

04/10/12. Letter sent to Apex, reiterating that this is not a current account and repeating that it falls under CCA 1974 so I require the info.
Received a letter from LTSB dated 04/10/12. "Thank you for contacting us about a Personal Loan. (I didn't)Unfortunately we are unable to trace an account held by you here at the Loan Centre. Please contact your local branch who will be happy to trace this loan for you." Service Delivery Manager.
Apex letter 09/10/12. “Thank you for your recent correspondence the contents of which have been noted. With reference to your recent dispute, we can confirm your account is currently under referal (sic), with our request for a Copy of Agreement, Statement of Accounts and Terms and Conditions due to be supplied by Lloyds Banking Group.”

Apex letter dated 22/10/12. Salient points:

• They think there has been some confusion over the reference number associated with the debt (No there hasn't) and confirm the original LTSB reference number – which is not the current account reference.
• They state that this was originally a current account (No it wasn't), and name the branch it was registered with.
• They state that the account defaulted on 18/02/11, but I haven't checked that date at this stage, but something about the date and the default amount they quote tells me something is not correct.
• They state that as the debt relates to a current account CCA 1974 does not apply.
• For my convenience, the £1 payment has been used to reduce my outstanding indebtedness. If I disagree they will arrange for the £1 to be returned to me.

The rest of the letter is about working with me to arrange a repayment plan, and will I complete a financial statement together with my proposal. As a gesture of goodwill, all collection activity will be suspended for 21 days.


I am proposing to write to them once again that this reference is demonstrably not my current account; That it is their mistaken belief (that this does not fall under CCA1974); Requiring them to correct the misappropriation of my £1; And to put it to the use for which it was intended, and to provide the CCA information requested in my original letter.

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Hi all - a couple of updates: First update.



02/08/12 CCA request sent.
01/09/12 Idem sent copy application. Niddy says . Shock horror.
However - 12/09/12 Missing Prescribed Terms letter sent.
23/10/12 Idem letter - “We need to speak with you – please contact us ...” No other comments.


Do I ignore and wait to see what they do next?

Actually, just looking again at what Idem sent in response to the CCA, I would like to ask Niddy if he will kindly take a second look.

[Deepie]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Hi - second update:



02/08/12 CCA request sent.
No response until Idem letter 20/10/12 “ We need to speak with you . We do not have an ongoing payment arrangement in place upon your account. As a consequence of this your account will be reviewed for placement with an external DCA within the next 7 days. …... Please contact us ...”


Do I ignore this and then when contacted by external DCA, send Sold while account In Dispute letter?

I would for now............

[Pixie]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Hi - second update:



02/08/12 CCA request sent.
No response until Idem letter 20/10/12 “ We need to speak with you . We do not have an ongoing payment arrangement in place upon your account. As a consequence of this your account will be reviewed for placement with an external DCA within the next 7 days. …... Please contact us ...”


Do I ignore this and then when contacted by external DCA, send Sold while account In Dispute letter?

That's what I would do...

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Hi - second update:

Credit card 2 MBNA. – Taken out early 90's
Balance approx. £8,500
Last full monthly repayment May 2010
DMP payments since then.
“Sold” to Idem Capital securities Ltd (Paragon Personal Finance Ltd) by lender beginning 2012
Last DMP payment May 2012.

02/08/12 CCA request sent.
No response until Idem letter 20/10/12 “ We need to speak with you . We do not have an ongoing payment arrangement in place upon your account. As a consequence of this your account will be reviewed for placement with an external DCA within the next 7 days. …... Please contact us ...”


Do I ignore this and then when contacted by external DCA, send Sold while account In Dispute letter?

[Deepie]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Hi all - a couple of updates: First update.



02/08/12 CCA request sent.
01/09/12 Idem sent copy application. Niddy says . Shock horror.
However - 12/09/12 Missing Prescribed Terms letter sent.
23/10/12 Idem letter - “We need to speak with you – please contact us ...” No other comments.


Do I ignore and wait to see what they do next?

I would..............

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Hi all - a couple of updates: First update.

Credit card 1 MBNA. – Taken out early 90's
Balance approx. £12,000
Last full monthly repayment May 2010
DMP payments since then.
“Sold” to Idem Capital securities Ltd (Paragon Personal Finance Ltd) by lender beginning 2012
Last DMP payment May 2012.

02/08/12 CCA request sent.
01/09/12 Idem sent copy application. Niddy says . Shock horror.
However - 12/09/12 Missing Prescribed Terms letter sent.
23/10/12 Idem letter - “We need to speak with you – please contact us ...” No other comments.


Do I ignore and wait to see what they do next?

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Hi. Second update for today.

Bank overdraft account LLoydsTSB – originally TSB Moneyplan a/c opened approx early 80's
Balance approx. £2140
Last full monthly repayment May 2010
DMP payments since then.
Last DMP payment May 2012.
Being administered by SCM Solicitors for bank.

This is not really an overdraft account, it was a TSB Moneyplan (revolving credit) account allowing up to 30 times the monthly transfer from the current account. I have not so far sent a CCA request in respect of this account.

Letters dated 12/9/12 From LloydsTSB and Apex Credit Management in the same envelope. Apex have been instructed to arrange collection of the outstanding amount. I note that the letters are referring to this as a current account, which it is most definitely not.
18/9/12 - voicemail message from Apex - "Contact us."
26/09/12sent CCA Request to Apex, pointing out that this is not a current account, and also incorporating a request to stop the harassing phone calls (which I had not been picking up).

3 letters received from Apex on 1/10/12:-
First dated 26/09/12 “Disappointed you have failed to reach any agreement with us...” Ignoring this as it crossed with my letter.
Second dated 27/09/12 “Sorry to learn you have been dissatisfied with the service we have provided …. we will be conducting a thorough investigation into your concerns …..”
Third dated 27/09/12 (Re CCA request) “In relation to the aforementioned account, we can confirm that we are unable to obtain copies of the required documentation from the original creditor in order to comply with your request due to the fact that your account is a current account and no copies of agreements are available on these types of accounts and therefore your request does not fall under sections 77-79 of the CCA Act of 1974.”

They go on to say that they have referred to their clients for the statements of account, and have placed the account on hold until they can forward these to me.
This is not a current account, I had a separate current account where my salary was paid in, and my regular SO's and DD's were paid out. I am thinking of writing to Apex again to reiterate that this is not a current account. As I see it either LloydsTSB have lost sight of the nature of the a/c, and that this was originally a TSB Moneyplan account, as it is so old and they had discontinued using the name Moneyplan after taking over TSB, OR they are deliberately attempting to mislead by now referring to it as a current account. I know that there was some form of application/agreement signed, and I had a copy of it for many years.


04/10/12. Letter sent to Apex, reiterating that this is not a current account and repeating that it falls under CCA 1974 so I require the info.
Received a letter from LTSB dated 04/10/12. "Thank you for contacting us about a Personal Loan. (I didn't)Unfortunately we are unable to trace an account held by you here at the Loan Centre. Please contact your local branch who will be happy to trace this loan for you." Service Delivery Manager.

I don't think this letter in itself means much, unless perhaps LTSB are getting a little perplexed as to the nature of the account , so I will just file it away and await further developments.

Apex letter 09/10/12. “Thank you for your recent correspondence the contents of which have been noted. With reference to your recent dispute, we can confirm your account is currently under referal (sic), with our request for a Copy of Agreement, Statement of Accounts and Terms and Conditions due to be supplied by Lloyds Banking Group.”

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

Hi. First update of two.

Credit card 6 Capital 1. – Taken out during 00's prior to 2007 I believe
Balance approx. £440
Last full monthly repayment May 2010
DMP payments since then.
Last DMP payment May 2012.
Being administered by lender


02/08/12CCA request sent.
17/08/12Cap1 sent Recon agreement. Niddy said - the terms are a recon but not relevant to the product I signed up for.
07/09/12Sent Missing Prescribed Terms letter.

Two letters received from Cap1 on 01/10/12:-
First letter dated 25/09/12 – a long repetitive and waffling response to the MPT letter claiming they have fulfilled their CCA obligations. I would like to send this one to Niddy for an opinion as to how to respond.

Second letter dated 27/09/12 – Account has been referred to Fredrickson International. I shall do nothing on this one until I hear from Fredrickson in writing. So far they have attempted to contact me by phone twice in the past two days.
Letter dated 02/10/12 received from Fredrickson - "Cap1 have passed this account to us for collection ......As we have been appointed as their agent you should now make sure you contact us and not Cap1. ..... Our client now requires payment in full to avoid further action. ....You must phone us immediately ....."

08/10/12 Account Sold whilst in Dispute (including para re phone harassment) letter sent.
Fredrickson letter 11/10/12 - “We would be grateful if you will note that we are no longer instructed to act in connection with this matter. We have passed your letter to our clients and would be grateful if you will address all further correspondence with them direct.”

[Still Waving]

Re: Which Way to Go?

I would say so too...
...but, by the sounds of it, that particular subject hasn't come up yet, has it? In which case, I'd let them make the first move...

No, it's very early days yet. I'm not giving them any pointers in my correspondence.