Default on CRA vs Default s87 / s88 CCA1974

[wineaddict2020]

Ha ha!! I can take blunt, I’m from Yorkshire - we call a spade a spade!!

Ok, I’m just biding my time waiting for responses to CCA’s at moment but I’ll certainly shout when I hear back anything!

Thanks

[Never-In-Doubt]

Yes it should be recorded within 6 months but then the formal term used is "a reasonable timeframe" and they won't budge for the sake of a month - it's so ambiguous that even the FOS would likely agree and say it's not really a fault to apply it in month 7. In month 10 or 20 then yes, I'd be helping you argue.

As you've been paying forget the SB clock - that's irrelevant now. So my advice would be cease payments and save what you'd normally pay into the DMP and then request a CCA. Let me see it and depending on the outcome you can decide how to proceed.

Thats what I'd do anyway. Here to help so just ask away. Don't think I was being arsey in my last post. I wasn't. I'm just blunt - always get told off for that lol.

[wineaddict2020]

Hiya

The fact that you went straight into a DMP stopped the default being applied, they have done nothing wrong - you have! You didn't allow the default to occur prior to starting a DMP so you will now have late markers for upto 12 years. Best thing is to cease all payments and wait till you see a D entry on the CRA then start a new DMP or whatever - however if you continue paying the DMP then they will record it correctly, so as things stand you are in a worse position and will lose another 6 years as a result.

It has nothing to do with UE - you need to send a s.78 request in order for us to help with that, but best to do this then stop payments around the same time. Let the debt be sold to a DCA and the default marker applied, then worry about a DMP if that's the route you want.

Thanks for replying, I wish I had known all this prior to doing the DMP but sadly I didn’t! I didn’t go straight into the DMP though there was a 7 month gap with no payments at all and I read earlier in this thread that they were supposed to record a default once 6 months of no payments had passed? I have now cancelled the DMP and have started my debt diary so plan to approach it all completed differently now I’ve found this forum!

[Never-In-Doubt]

I have a Sainsbury’s CC debt which I last made full payment in in March 2019 and then began a DMP in Nov 2019. So 7 month gap with no payments at all, It’s never shown as defaulted on my credit file and I’m pretty sure I never received a default notice. As it’s a gap of more than 6 months with no default notice, will that make it UE? I am also really worried about them adding a default with CRA later on which could scupper my credit as all other debts recorded them last year, would I be able to get this changed without admitting liability and resetting SB clock? If not should I do something about it now whilst I’m still very early in the journey (last payment July 2020).

Hiya

The fact that you went straight into a DMP stopped the default being applied, they have done nothing wrong - you have! You didn't allow the default to occur prior to starting a DMP so you will now have late markers for upto 12 years. Best thing is to cease all payments and wait till you see a D entry on the CRA then start a new DMP or whatever - however if you continue paying the DMP then they will record it correctly, so as things stand you are in a worse position and will lose another 6 years as a result.

It has nothing to do with UE - you need to send a s.78 request in order for us to help with that, but best to do this then stop payments around the same time. Let the debt be sold to a DCA and the default marker applied, then worry about a DMP if that's the route you want.

[wineaddict2020]

I have a Sainsbury’s CC debt which I last made full payment in in March 2019 and then began a DMP in Nov 2019. So 7 month gap with no payments at all, It’s never shown as defaulted on my credit file and I’m pretty sure I never received a default notice. As it’s a gap of more than 6 months with no default notice, will that make it UE? I am also really worried about them adding a default with CRA later on which could scupper my credit as all other debts recorded them last year, would I be able to get this changed without admitting liability and resetting SB clock? If not should I do something about it now whilst I’m still very early in the journey (last payment July 2020).

[Westham1]

Re: Default on CRA vs Default s87 / s88 CCA1974

Ok, so why can't defendants successfully refer to this as a precedent. Lenders would soon get the drift.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Default on CRA vs Default s87 / s88 CCA1974

Hopefully it will be simpler to answer after the on-going cases!
I am surprised there hasn't been a case already to establish the default date so that precedence has already been established.

There has - Glass v Swansea Council (for instance) - but lenders still try it on....

--> http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...a-City-Council

[Westham1]

Re: Default on CRA vs Default s87 / s88 CCA1974

Hopefully it will be simpler to answer after the on-going cases!
I am surprised there hasn't been a case already to establish the default date so that precedence has already been established.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Default on CRA vs Default s87 / s88 CCA1974

Hi,
I've just read through this thread.
Niddy says that the latest they should default you is 9 months after last payment.
Is this set in stone ?
Also, what is the correct default date - is it the one on the s.87 which the OC sends, or the date reccorded by the CRA on your credit file?

What they should do, and what they do, do are sadly worlds apart.

Technically, based on guidelines then yes - the ICO state that a default should be registered at the earliest opportunity based on allowing a short period to remedy the breach (arrears). If you don't there is no reason for a creditor to wait a year or two before defaulting you. That is not set in stone as we are taking this through court - upon the outcome of that case we will then hopefully have some clarity.

The creditors (well certain ones) are trying to say the default occurs from the date they send the s.87 notice (ie Cause of Action) - we're arguing this with the facts which suggest that the CoA should be the earliest opportunity so technically within a month from first missed payment (or thereabouts).

No. A formal default (i.e. s.87/88) is nothing to do with your credit file. They are not linked - the dates should be similar but it's not guaranteed as you may well have defaulted the account, then a year later decided to repay monthly - so you'd have a default at the CRA but so what if you had a s.87/88 default? That really only comes into play when defending a claim.

The correct default date (or the only one that matters to you) is the CRA default which should be within a few months of your first missed payment. The formalised s.87/88 notices don't really play any part in the CRA records.

Your question isn't as simple to answer as you'd think

[Westham1]

Re: Default on CRA vs Default s87 / s88 CCA1974

Hi,
I've just read through this thread.
Niddy says that the latest they should default you is 9 months after last payment.
Is this set in stone ?
Also, what is the correct default date - is it the one on the s.87 which the OC sends, or the date reccorded by the CRA on your credit file?

[marypoppins]

Re: Default on CRA vs Default s87 / s88 CCA1974

I'll create a guide for our new AAD+ section which will help you get such defaults removed or correctly applied. Littlewoods is a card, so if you last paid June 2009, they MUST default you by March 2010. 9 months is the maximum. The ICO would need a damned good excuse from Barclays to find in their favour.

That would be great thank you Niddy, I wasn't aware of the limit and I guess a lot of people don't know this either.

The other card is a Barclaycard card so the same will apply, the default was registered Jan 11 MUCH later than the limit you state of March 10!

Just typical of Barclays, making their own rules up and relying on customers lack of knowledge!

[Shadow2981]

Re: Default on CRA vs Default s87 / s88 CCA1974

Did you go to FOS - (ref RoSO) - did they find against you?

Can you clarify the background, briefly please

Nah, did nothing - at first it was a case of "ICO is just a guideline so they can default you 10 years after payments stopped if they wanted to" - and progressed to "it will take months of fighting by which time it will have dropped off anyway".

The history is I had a credit card with Lloyds - got into disputes so stopped paying (didn't know how else to deal with it back then) in Oct 2006 - made no payments since.

Got defaulted in March 2009, got sold to Wescott shortly after, but it got returned to Lloyds as I thought it was ID theft at the time - then in 2013/4 sold to Capquest in full assignment which you have helped me deal with if you recall (proving it is SB)?

EDIT: they took RoSo payments from November 06 up until April/May '08 when I closed the bank account - so from then until default they had no payments whatsoever.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Default on CRA vs Default s87 / s88 CCA1974

Yes we have I just wondered if this was grounds for demanding early removal without months of fighting (by which time it would have fallen off now anyway) and possibly even some compo for the 3 years I have been getting declined credit (such as mortgage) based on recent case law...

That's what I meant by does this change anything.

Did you go to FOS - (ref RoSO) - did they find against you?

Can you clarify the background, briefly please

[Shadow2981]

Re: Default on CRA vs Default s87 / s88 CCA1974

This should be SB / Default clear. RoSO cannot affect SB anyway but the fact is RoSO is not YOU making the monthly payment, hence it should have been defaulted on 2006 with the CRA's - 2007 if if was a bank account overdraft.

We've discussed this before haven't we? Maybe via email

Yes we have I just wondered if this was grounds for demanding early removal without months of fighting (by which time it would have fallen off now anyway) and possibly even some compo for the 3 years I have been getting declined credit (such as mortgage) based on recent case law...

That's what I meant by does this change anything.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Default on CRA vs Default s87 / s88 CCA1974

Very interesting nightwatch.

I was having a look on Noddle to check dates of my defaults (I stopped paying all of mine bar one in May/June 09) most defaults are dated within 7 months. Except two, one is Barclaycard which is dated January 11 and the other is Littlewoods (Barclays connection) and this is dated Nov 10.

I'll create a guide for our new AAD+ section which will help you get such defaults removed or correctly applied. Littlewoods is a card, so if you last paid June 2009, they MUST default you by March 2010. 9 months is the maximum. The ICO would need a damned good excuse from Barclays to find in their favour.