cardio's Diary

[cardiac arrest]

Re: cardio's Diary

Flowerpower, thank you for your observations...I was thinking of CPUTR when I was talking about the DCA trying to infer that what they had said entitled them to say that I should start paying them again...when they must know full well that it does not comply. The fact they put all this in one letter linked the two together, and thus encouraged me to imply something which was, in fact, not right. ?

While I am delighted about the UE aspect, I still haven't nailed the DCA as to their actual legal rights to pursue this account...I sort of want to see an assignment notice and a deed of assignment...which I have never had.....is this silly ?

As I said at the outset, my grievance is with the OC, and I still have an outstanding FOS issue with them anyway.

[cardiac arrest]

Re: cardio's Diary

Am just having a brain blockage...When we discuss the 14 days to remedy a default Notice, this 14 days is described somewhere in some legislation, which I can't for the life of me remember where... it describes something like 2 days for delivery (although there is also something about assuming 2nd class post ) which must be a week day, so if posted on a Thursday the 1st day would be Monday,as far as 'counting down'. But does the 14 days just include working days, ...sorry, totally lost it !

2nd question...My default notice , apart from not giving 14 days, also has the wrong amount on it as both 'due' and the balance outstanding..as the OC continued to add interest and charges after DN, and when they passed it to their in house collector the amount they said was outstanding was higher than the DN...does any of this matter at all ?

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: cardio's Diary

Hi Cardiac Arrest..calm down you'll give yourself a heart attack!

It's working days for postage and 14 clear consecutive days to remedy the breach

Elsa x

[cardiac arrest]

Re: cardio's Diary

Hi Cardiac Arrest..calm down you'll give yourself a heart attack!

It's working days for postage and 14 clear consecutive days to remedy the breach

Elsa x

Lovely, thanks Elsa. I'll make a note so I don't forget again...

[cardiac arrest]

Re: cardio's Diary

What are you aiming for/trying to achieve?

If a debt is UE, you just don't pay and sit it out for 6 years till it goes SBd. Simples.

All those non-compliance issues you name above can only work in your favour, but there's no need to tell them where they've been going wrong at this stage. But you don't want to be telling them all that now so they can put it right!

Keep all correspondence and documents sent and received on file just in case one day they decided to go legal. At that point, you could argue you never received a NoA, your DN was defective because it didn't allow for service, etc.

DCAs have the right to pursue the account regardless of enforceability or assignment status. They can chase you for a debt they don't own, on behalf of their client, but without absolute assignment, the DCA itself couldn't take you to court.

They can also chase you for UE debts as collection activity doesn't amount to enforcement. UE means they won't be able to obtain judgment in court (CCJ), but they can still ask you to pay. Take a look at this case --> McGUFFICK v RBS [2009] - allaboutFORUMS

That's a very good question Flowerpower...what am I trying to achieve..? .I suppose the route I'm taking is to ultimately get the DCA to give up. While it is UE at the moment I realise that I have never had any proof of who they are and what their 'rights' are. They could have no rights at all, so why would I , after the CCA's , enter into any form of dialogue with them now. Niddy has suggested a template to send about the stuff they sent me being duff...but I don't want to do that yet until they prove their rights...so I want the assignment notice I never received, and I want to know if they have legal rights and duties first of all. Why would I enter into correspondence about the detail of their non compliance with CCA before I satisfy myself I am not dealing with an interloper ? So that's the first step.

If they send me the right stuff to prove their rights, I know then that Niddy's template is being sent to someone who has a legal right to engage with me about this.

Otherwise I sit tight.

After Niddy's letter, if they do indeed turn up an agreement with the PT's (however cobbled) then I would have to deal with that..if they can not then they would have to confirm to me they do not have it (CPUTR) I guess. That would do me.

I know I have more ammunition I can use later, if needed, and I haven't revealed any of this to the DCA, nor do I intend to at this stage.

A step at a time, get them to fill in all the blanks, if they can, delay and frustrate them, use up their time and resources..you know what I mean. They will surely make an attempt to remedy the CCA situation, but not yet and only on my terms.

I also have the FOS investigating the original amount and that has some time to run yet, so that will defer them from taking any action too if I need to use it.

The back marker is indeed the DN, and I am researching some interesting stuff about this and the implications of what the OC has done and the possible implications for the DCA as a result. You might have read some stuff on this about 'live' agreements being repudiated due to being sold on after termination...and the implications for unlicensed DCA's having to deal with it.

I personally don't feel the job is done with an UE agreement as it stands at the moment..The DCA thinks they have complied (or at least that is what they want me to believe). Niddy's template letter would be me telling them they have not complied. But there are other issues which I need to have sorted out to cover any eventualities that may follow. The 6 years has already started, so I'm not holding anything up.

I have my file all up to date, and obviously will never reveal what I know until or if I ever need to. Rest assured that I am taking heed of your advice on this, but I would rather have a strategy in place than sit awaiting the DCA to come up with something some years down the line perhaps. They could take me to Court, and supply the info just before the hearing...so I need to be sure I can block that eventuality, which I can , several times over.

Don't know if this makes any sense, but it feels right to me...but of course I welcome any advice and suggestions at any time...that's why I am here..and so grateful to have found you wonderful people

[cardiac arrest]

Re: cardio's Diary

Have moved your last post to your diary here to keep it all together. Thanks FP, wasn't sure

You wouldn't want to tell your creditor that their DN is defective, keep that card up your sleeve.

Too right, I don't want to do that !! Hopefully I will not have to bring it into play at all ...

[PlanB]

Re: cardio's Diary

I have sent 3 CCA recorded delivery letters each to the OC, the OC's agent and the DCA...the last letter is out of time for a reply, in fact no one has replied to any of these CCA and CPUTR requests.

. . . . . So what am I doing you might ask ? Well ,Sainsburys really screwed me for some £1,500 in fees and charges between 2006 and 2008, which they didn't need to do. I wrote them and asked for it to be refunded but they declined, so I've sent my case the ombudsman to rule over.

In addition the OC never sent me a Notice of assignment, plus they issued me with a defective DN.

. . . . . Can you see where I'm going with this...

I'm afraid I can't see where you are going with this and why you're in such a hurry to get there wherever that may be You might as well have asked "if I get married tomorrow will my husband divorce me one day?" You're seeking an insurance policy that you'll never be taken to court which no one can give you because it's a free country and creditors can issues summons whenever they feel like it, but only the DJ can decide if they can enforce the claim and collect their money.

Your complaint against the OC (Sainsbury's) is with the FOS so it's unlikely you'll get a court summons while that investigation continues.

Creditors or DCAs or solicitors have no obligation to reply to a CPUTR request which could be why they haven't.

You seem to have three enemies. One is the OC (Sainsburys) the next is their *agent* and I don't know what that means so tell us who they are and how they're involved. And the third is the current DCA so tell us who that is in case there's a clue in there as to whether you have had this debt assigned (as in *sold* to a debt purchaser) or farmed out to a DCA to bully you into paying but the OC remains the creditor which could be why you were never sent a Notice of Assignment.

I don't understand your reluctance to send an AAD Template Letter to a DCA. What harm can it possibly do? But if you don't send anything at all they could recommend to their client (the OC) that they should instigate legal proceedings having decided your silence sends out the signal that you're a debtor who *won't pay* not *can't pay* and has failed to give them any reasons why not. If they have purchased the debt then they can go down that road all by themselves.

It's good to gather evidence in advance, but like all poker games you'll win by having an expressionless face while you play

[cardiac arrest]

Re: cardio's Diary

I'm afraid I can't see where you are going with this and why you're in such a hurry to get there wherever that may be You might as well have asked "if I get married tomorrow will my husband divorce me one day?" You're seeking an insurance policy that you'll never be taken to court which no one can give you because it's a free country and creditors can issues summons whenever they feel like it, but only the DJ can decide if they can enforce the claim and collect their money. That's a very fair comment..My 1st letter was Aug, 3 months ago..and I waited all the requisite periods between letters and got nil response from anybody, until the stuff came which I sent to Niddy. He suggested a reply about UE, which I have sort of done. Otherwise I haven't written or contacted anybody..so it doesn't feel to me like I am rushing so much, as thinking ahead

Your complaint against the OC (Sainsbury's) is with the FOS so it's unlikely you'll get a court summons while that investigation continues.
I wrote twice about this but got fobbed off and they suggested I go to FOS, which I have...no idea how long it will take, but yes while this is pending it does act as a blocker
Creditors or DCAs or solicitors have no obligation to reply to a CPUTR request which could be why they haven't. Maybe not, but they do with a CCA..which they also ignored

You seem to have three enemies. One is the OC (Sainsburys) the next is their *agent* and I don't know what that means so tell us who they are and how they're involved. And the third is the current DCA so tell us who that is in case there's a clue in there as to whether you have had this debt assigned (as in *sold* to a debt purchaser) or farmed out to a DCA to bully you into paying but the OC remains the creditor which could be why you were never sent a Notice of Assignment.The 'agent' I meant was 'in-house' collector used by HBOS (Blair Oliver and Scott).they received the account in 2008 after the DN and had it just short of 2 years before it was 'sold' on to Hillesden Securities. My last letter is to try and determine who owns this account, so I've asked DLC (trading arm of Hillesden) to send me the NOA I never received and what their status is ...am waiting for a reply before I do anything else

I don't understand your reluctance to send an AAD Template Letter to a DCA. What harm can it possibly do? But if you don't send anything at all they could recommend to their client (the OC) that they should instigate legal proceedings having decided your silence sends out the signal that you're a debtor who *won't pay* not *can't pay* and has failed to give them any reasons why not. If they have purchased the debt then they can go down that road all by themselves. See above, I have logged on my diary post already that I have indeed written to DLC to ascertain what their legal standing is...if they can not confirm they have any why would I send them the template letters ? Obviously Sainsbury's and BOS feel they have no interest because they have never replied, so someone owns this account, who is it ? I should at least have the NOA shouldn't I..

It's good to gather evidence in advance, but like all poker games you'll win by having an expressionless face while you play

I know what you are saying here, and I do agree with you..As I have said in earlier posts I am happy to let time pass by and use the template letters when and if they ever respond to me. I did remind DLC in my 'who are you ?' letter, that in any event the account would be UE due to failure to comply to a CCA request

I am trying to improve my overall knowledge of all this as I go along, and I dare say some things I ask sound a bit daft..I accept that. I rely 100% on people like yourself to steer me in the right direction, and I can assure you it is VERY much appreciated

[cardiac arrest]

Re: cardio's Diary

I stopped paying the £1 when I started the CCA process in August 2012

17 Aug 2012 ~ sent letter to DCA for details to substantiate their legality to claim
3 Sep 2012 ~ sent CCA letters with £1 to OC and DCA, recorded delivery
28 Sep 2012 ~ sent 2nd CCA letters to OC and DCA asking for same; Rec Del
18 Oct 2012 ~ sent 3rd CCA letters to OC and DCA stating unenforceable due to not complying with CCA requests; Rec Delivery
23 Oct 2012 ~ reply from DCA with poor copy of an application form and something like a copy of an agreement between them and the OC regarding buying debts..."apology for delay we have been sending replies to your old address, here are the copies. We trust this now resolves the matter."
2 Nov 2012, emailed above to Niddy for advice on compliance
4 Nov 2012. reply from Niddy... Unenforceable !!
5 Nov 2012 ~ Sent letter to DCA asking for them to prove their legal interest in the account to establish their rights to communicate with me on this matter (Notice of assignment/Deed of assignment) before I discuss the matter further.
5 Nov ~ ...call on my mobile phone from OC !!! didn't answer but they sent me a text then and asked my to phone them...Blimey Crikey..somethings happening. This is despite my previous instruction that all communication should be in writing only
6 Nov 2012 ~ Another call from OC..suspect this might be to do with my reclaim for charges /fees which is now with FOS...didn't answer...let them put anything in writing.

7 Nov 2012 ~ Sent Niddy's template 'Missing Prescribed terms', to DCA registered post
7 Nov 2012 ~ Rec'd reply from OC re unfair interest and fees applied, claim first made back in Jan 2008, OC agreed to deduct from account balance within 40 days by advising DCA

[PriorityOne]

Re: cardio's Diary

Creditors or DCAs or solicitors have no obligation to reply to a CPUTR request which could be why they haven't.

.... unless it's part of a Formal Complaint.

Cardiac Arrest..... I would stop prodding around with this if I were you and send the relevant template, as advised. It's a UE account and although the way things have been handled may bother you, which I understand fully.... please look at the bigger picture; if the account is UE, then who really gives a feck how they've handled things. You just don't pay it....

[PlanB]

Re: cardio's Diary

3 Sep 2012 ~ sent CCA letters with £1 to OC and DCA, recorded delivery
28 Sep 2012 ~ sent 2nd CCA letters to OC and DCA asking for same; Rec Del
18 Oct 2012 ~ sent 3rd CCA letters to OC and DCA stating unenforceable due to not complying with CCA requests; Rec Delivery
23 Oct 2012 ~ reply from DCA with poor copy of an application form and something like a copy of an agreement between them and the OC regarding buying debts..."apology for delay we have been sending replies to your old address, here are the copies. We trust this now resolves the matter."

6 Nov 2012 ~ Another call from OC..suspect this might be to do with my reclaim for charges /fees which is now with FOS...didn't answer...let them put anything in writing.

From what you say it seems that dlc have been writing to your old address which they would have got from Sainsburys (the OC). Could this be where the NoA was also sent?

dlc also say that as far as they are concerned they have now complied with your s.78 request so they will reactivate their collections process unless you send them the Template Letter as previously suggested.

I doubt Sainsburys were ringing you about your FOS complaint because once an investigation starts all communication is conducted through the Adjudicator who acts as a go-between.

[SXGuy]

Re: cardio's Diary

DLC have always responded to letters, they take around 2 weeks to respond from past expierence, so as suggested, its more likely they are writing to the wrong address.

[cardiac arrest]

Re: cardio's Diary

DLC have always responded to letters, they take around 2 weeks to respond from past expierence, so as suggested, its more likely they are writing to the wrong address.

I told them about 2 years ago of my current address...but they didn't reply with an acknowledgement (maybe......, surely not..)

[PlanB]

Re: cardio's Diary

I told them about 2 years ago of my current address...but they didn't reply with an acknowledgement (maybe......, surely not..)

Does this mean that you've had no correspondence, statements or anything at all from either Sainsburys or dlc for two years despite the fact you've been paying them all that time

[cardiac arrest]

Re: cardio's Diary

Does this mean that you've had no correspondence, statements or anything at all from either Sainsburys or dlc for two years despite the fact you've been paying them all that time

...Nothing since the last letter to my London address was sent to me in January 2010, until they finally realised and wrote to my current address on 23 October 2012....