Sainsburys Charges Reclaim

[Scrappy Coco]

Afternoon all,

Scrappy Coco again requesting more help.

Sent a schedule of charges to Sainsburys for a refund and they basically told me to get stuffed.

Sent a LBA and they told me to get stuffed again.

So I want to take them to court, where do I start?

Is there a standard template I can modify for my needs?

Thanks as always

Scrappy Coco

[di30]

Re: Sainsburys Charges Reclaim

Hi there

Sorry about the rejections.

I am not used to dealing with court matters in regards of these charges reclaims, but sure someone, maybe Niddy will direct you to the right direction on this one.

I take it - this would be done through the Smalls Claims Court, try googling this in for more info and hopefully one of our folks will be along shortly to help further.

Good luck.

[Scrappy Coco]

Re: Sainsburys Charges Reclaim

Afternoon all,

Can someone in the know advise if this is correct for taking Sainsburys to court to reclaim charges?

Claim No [ ]

IN THE [ENTER YOUR LOCAL] county court



BETWEEN

[YOUR FULL NAME]
Claimant

and


Sainsburys Bank


Defendant




PARTICULARS OF CLAIM


1. The Claimant entered into an agreement (“The Agreement”) with the Defendant on or around xx/xx/xxxx, whereby the Defendant was to advance credit facilities to the Claimant under a running credit account, Account no xxxxxxxxxx ("The Account").

2.The Agreement essentially consisted of the Defendant providing the Claimant with a credit card (“The Card”) which would allow the Claimant to make purchases and receive cash advances on credit. In return the Defendant was entitled to charge interest at the published rate.

3.The Agreement was a Regulated Agreement for the purposes of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

4.At all material times the contract was subject to the Defendant’s standard terms and conditions which could be varied from time to time.


Summary

5. Throughout the course of the Agreement, the Defendant has added numerous default charges to the Account for the Claimant’s failure to make the minimum payment on the due date and or for exceeding the credit limit and or if a payment is returned. (Full particulars are set out in schedule 2).

6.The default charges were applied in accordance with the standard terms of The Agreement which were:
a). A penalty payable on breach of contract and thus unenforceable: and
b) An unfair term under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (“The Regulations”) and therefore not binding on the Claimant.


7. The Claimant is accordingly entitled to repayment of the sums wrongly added to the Account.

The Charges


8. The standard Terms of the Agreement in substance provided as follows:
(a) The Defendant would provide the Claimant with the Card. The Claimant was entitled to use the Card to make purchases and receive cash advances up to a credit limit (“the Limit”) set by the Defendant. The Defendant could unilaterally change the Limit by giving the Claimant notice in writing.
(b) The Defendant was entitled to charge interest on the purchases and cash advances at the published rate.
(c) The Claimant was to pay the minimum payment of 2.25% of the amount owed or £5 (whichever was the greatest) by the due date as notified in the monthly statements.
(d) In addition the Defendant was entitled to charge default fees (“the Charges”) where the Claimant exceeded the Limit, did not pay on the due date or had a payment returned. The Charges are currently £12 for each transgression. Prior to 2006 the Charges were £xx.

Penalty

9. The Charges were payable on breach of contract by the Claimant.

10.The amount of the Charges exceeded any genuine pre-estimate of the damage which would have been suffered by the Bank in relation to the Claimant’s transgressions.

11. In the premises the Charges were punitive and a penalty and thus unenforceable at common law.

The Regulations


12.At all material times the Claimant was a consumer within the Regulations.

13. At all material times the terms of the Agreement providing for the Charges were unfair within regulation 5 of the Regulations in that contrary to the requirement of good faith they caused a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations to the detriment of the Claimant.

14. without prejudice to the burden of proof, the Claimant will refer to the following matters in support of the contention that the terms are to be assessed as unfair as at the time of the conclusion of the Agreement, and of each revision to the Standard Terms.
(1)The terms relating to Charges were standard terms; they would not be individually negotiated.
(2)The Charges were a penalty for breach of contract.
(3)The Charges exceeded the costs which the Bank could have expected to incur in dealing with the exceeding of the credit limit, late payment or returned payment.
(4) Accordingly the Charges were a disproportionate charge incurred by the Claimant for their failure to meet their contractual obligation and thus within the ambit of Schedule 2 (1) (e) of the Regulations and indicative of an unfair term.
(5) As the Bank knew, the Charges were of subsidiary importance to the customer in the context of the Agreement as a whole and would not influence the making of the Agreement.
(6) As the Defendant knew, the Claimant had no means of assessing the fairness of the Charges.
(7) In the premises, the effect of the Charges would be prejudicial to the customer who incurred them, and cause an imbalance in the relations of the parties to the Agreement by subordinating the customer’s interests to those of the Defendant in a way which was inequitable.

15.without prejudice to the burden of proof, the Claimant will contend that the terms imposing the Charges are not core terms under regulation 6 of the Regulations and relies on the following matters.
(1) The assessment of fairness does not relate to terms which define the main or core subject matter of the Agreement.
(2) The assessment of fairness does not relate to the adequacy of the price or remuneration as against the goods or services supplied in exchange (in other words, whether or not the relevant services were value for money).
(3) The Charges are correctly described as default charges by the Defendant in the key information provided to new customers.

16. By reason of the said matters the terms were not binding under regulation 8 of the Regulations.

17.The Defendant wrongly applied Charges to the Account totaling some £[xxxx] between [ xx/xx/xxxx] and [xx/xx/xxxx ]. Particulars appear from Schedule 2.

18. On [ date of your preliminary letter ] the Claimant demanded repayment of the sums wrongly applied.

19. The Defendant has not repaid them or any of them.

And the Claimant claims

(1) A declaration that the sums totaling £[ xxxx.xx] have wrongly been applied to the Account

(2) Payment of the said sum of £[xxxx.xx ] and interest of [£xx.xx] applied by the Defendant thereon.

(3) Interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum from the date of payment of the Charge to date in the sum of £[xxx.xx ], and at the daily rate of [ xx ] until judgment or sooner payment.

(4) Court costs of [ xxxx].

I believe that the facts stated in these particulars, comprising of x pages, are true.

Dated



Signed


Schedule 1



From the Terms and conditions currently enforce (as of Sept 2007).

2.5 You must keep within your credit limit. When working out whether you have gone over your credit limit, we can include the amount of any authorised transaction not yet put on the account.

3.1 You must make all payments by the payment due date. To help you to do this, your monthly statement will tell you how to make payments to reach us on time. Where we become aware that your monthly payment was received before the payment due date but credited to your account after this date because of an error by us we will either refund or not charge a late payment fee.


From Key Financial Information (Online)

Amount of credit

We will tell you your credit limit when you first receive your Sainsburys Card. We may change your credit limit depending on our assessment of your account and will tell you about these changes by writing to you.

Monthly Payments
You must make the minimum payment every month of 2.25% of the amount you owe
us on your monthly statement or £5, whichever is more or the entire amount if less
than £5. You must pay the minimum payment by the due date shown on your
statement. This will normally be 25 days after your statement date.

Default Charges

We will charge you for any reasonable costs or losses we incur if you break this
agreement, including the following charges:
£12 if you do not make at least your minimum payment by the payment due date;
£12 if you exceed your credit limit at any time;
£12 if a direct debit, cheque or other item is not paid when first presented.


Schedule 2

Attach your schedule of charges and head it schedule 2 be sure to include the date that charge was applied to the account, the date you paid the charge, the type of charge eg over limit, late payment etc

Thanks as always

Scrappy Coco

[di30]

Re: Sainsburys Charges Reclaim

Hi

I am not sure on the dealings with court as such, so bumping for the right one to come along that will know, or have experienced this, good luck.

[Scrappy Coco]

Re: Sainsburys Charges Reclaim

Cheers DI30

There's no rush at the moment as they are still being paid every month without fail.

They gave me some hogwash about the charges reflect the administration charges in dealing with my account.

Really not my problem.

Fightback time. They have been talking the proverbial for years but don't like it when you come back at them. Bunch of if you ask me.

Time for some give me my money back or I'll the crap out of you.

Thanks as always
Scrappy Coco

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Sainsburys Charges Reclaim

You're taking HBOS to court over charges

Have you been to FOS as yet and if not, why not?

Be careful especially using UTCCR!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Sainsburys Charges Reclaim

I would head to penalty charges forum (consumer forums) and post there. Get Stephen (Hone) on side. He's the one that kick started UTCCR and reclaims via small claims....

He is site team there. Just don't desert us

Just say niddy sent you from AAD.

[Scrappy Coco]

Re: Sainsburys Charges Reclaim

Morning NID

I thought I was an early riser.

Haven't been to FOS as I don't trust them to deal with anything relating to the banks. My personal opinion is they show bias so would be a pointless exercise.

For example, after being on a payment plan for 4 years. £150pm with them taking £102 interest Sainsburys decided to send me a DN.

I had until the 30th January to rectify. Managed to get the £700.00 together to pay them to stop the default.

Called them up on the 26th January to make the payment and was advised the account had been defaulted on the 25th January.

Asked them if I made the required payment if they would remove the default as they had done it 5 days early. Their answer was NO without explanation.

Went to FOS with all the evidence that I was going to make the payment. Details of them defaulting me 5 days before the required date, the relevant regulations etc etc.

FOS came back to me with, they are within their rights to do this as I had been on a direct payment arrangement for to long and it was normal procedure.

So the fact that I had been paying them monthly without fail and hardly reducing the outstanding balance due to interest payments, the regulations they breached etc etc I would trust FOS to boil an egg.

So thought I'd play Sainsburys at their on game......

Hope that makes sense & if your opinion is to make a further complaint to FOS about charges then I'll happily take it on board

Thanks as always
Scrappy Coco

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Sainsburys Charges Reclaim

I notice you copied a lot of the POC from CAG. Be careful. Their methods are not tested to that extreme, plus I feel you'd be best heading to PC Forum if you're adamant you want to take this route. Be careful. You could get stung for some very high costs plus an early strike-out.

I wish you luck but please think long and hard about this.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Sainsburys Charges Reclaim

Lol

I'm still here from yesterday. Bed beckons.....

[Scrappy Coco]

Re: Sainsburys Charges Reclaim

He is site team there. Just don't desert us

Wouldn't do that as I like it over here better than CF.

CF seems to have lost it's way in my personal opinion

Thanks as always

Scrappy Coco

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Sainsburys Charges Reclaim

Regards FOS and default. Can you elaborate please.

I'll explain. If we're talking about serving a DN under s.87 & s.88 (CCA1974) then they MUST give a clear 14 days remedy period. However if you're talking about on your credit file then technically in line with legislation they ought to add a default with the cra between 3-6 months. However if you're on a dmp and the bank are "nice" by not adding one for years, the moment you miss a payment gives them right to add one regardless that it could be 10 years into a dmp.

That's why our mantra is get defaulted ASAP. Right at the start cos then you know, no matter what that in 6yrs you can start clean.

Hope the above makes sense?

[Scrappy Coco]

Re: Sainsburys Charges Reclaim

Sounds like you need your bed then.

Yes I did get most of the POC from CF but obviously amended as required.

I was under the impression that the banks tend not to contest credit card charge claims and seem to pay up once served with court papers?????

Don't wont the true cost's involved for an automated process in the public domain???

But that is what I've been reading on the CF.

You have made me stop and think about it now.

Thanks as always
Scrappy Coco

[Scrappy Coco]

Re: Sainsburys Charges Reclaim

Regards FOS and default. Can you elaborate please.

I'll explain. If we're talking about serving a DN under s.87 & s.88 (CCA1974) then they MUST give a clear 14 days remedy period. However if you're talking about on your credit file then technically in line with legislation they ought to add a default with the cra between 3-6 months. However if you're on a dmp and the bank are "nice" by not adding one for years, the moment you miss a payment gives them right to add one regardless that it could be 10 years into a dmp.

That's why our mantra is get defaulted ASAP. Right at the start cos then you know, no matter what that in 6yrs you can start clean.

Hope the above makes sense?

I'll dig all the information out when I get back and post it

Off to work now. It's p*ssing down outside. Lovely

Thanks as always
Scrappy Coco

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Sainsburys Charges Reclaim

Ok try my approach, no harm in trying....

1. If your final response from the bank is within 6mths then complete a FOS complaint and see what they say (adjudicator!
2. If they find against you then consider the above
3. If they find for you in parts - consider the ombudsman appeal
4. If the find totally for you - excellent

I'd try the FOS first. You can disregard any adjudicator decision as though it never occurred so what harm is there?