Advice needed on how to deal with debts going forward

[Roger]

Your Diary entries aren't very helpful are they?
Every £1 paid means restarting the Statute Bar Clock irrespective of the Credit Reporting Agencies.

How and were to start advising? Well for starters the idea of a Diary is that over a timeline each and every Debt will show letters received action taken etc..
You need to update the diary entries for each Debt and especially

For starters `Intrum UK Finance Limited` are NOT FCA registered and if Intrum have obtained a CCJ against you I would advice you to immediately contact Colin G Quinn AND not engage in correspondence with them! I sincerely hope you haven't paid them a penny!
I see no sign anywhere of S.78 CCA requests ever being made.

It really is in your own interests here and especially being resident abroad.
To update and flesh out your Diary entries.

[a718671076]

Hi Everybody,

Its been 7 months since I last posted so thought I would update the thread. My Tesco loan has misteriously been removed from all three of my credit files and (about 2 months ago now) and last last 2 £1 payments I sent have just bounced back. I am hoping thats a good thing? Odd for sure as it was for almost 7k.

I have a question about getting a CCJ removed from my credit file. This got added in September 2017 sent to an old adress when I was living abroad. I paid this off fully in May 2020. I messaged the creditor and they said they would have no objection to me filling a N244 application would I be likely to sucessed if I can prove I was living and working out of the country at the time and their letters were sent to the UK? The CCJ should fall off my credit report September next year, but I am looking to rent in the UK in the near future and I know this will hold me back, so I am trying to weigh up my chances of removal. One further follow up question, if I do manage to sucessfully get the CCJ removed from my credit file, is there a chance some of the creditors might notice this and step up their response to some of the other debts that I havent heard from in months and months?

Thanks for the help as always!

[a718671076]

Hi All!

Quick update: I'm pretty sure I'll be coming back to the UK mid September, so I'm looking to get a plan together for as soon as I arrive. I will start with Intrum, just because it is the only one that has been passed onto a third party and I'll leave the others until they do.

Firstly, I think Intrum have falsely reported the data on my credit file. They have the default down as April 2020, which means it wouldn't come off the report until April 26 when really it should be Feb 24! (Which is when Tesco defaulted the account). I found this through Credit Karma (Trans Union), do I have to contact them directly or through Intrum.

I'll try to get the CCA sent to Intrum within days of me getting back so I can update the thread with what they come back with.

[PlanB]

So seeing as the 3 accounts I am making token payments on will not be SB, would the long term goal be to continue the payments say for another 6 months and then potentially see if I am in a position to offer a partial settlement of say between 30-50% of the debt? The same being true for the Capital one (as token payments are being made for this one also) a few months down the line if I can get some funds together?

Then leave the other debts until they contact me?

At the moment all your debts are with the original creditors with the exception of Tesco which you now know has been assigned to Intrum.

Once a debt has been assigned to a debt purchaser it's a lot easier to negotiate a Full & Final settlement since they will have paid a substantially reduced amount for the debt so have more leeway.

I also believe that negotiation is best done from a position of strength so if any of your debts turn out to be unenforceable you will be in a better bargaining position.

This forum specializes in 'unenforceability' by sending s77-79 CCA Requests, and depending on what comes back (which you can email to Niddy for his opinion) let's you decide whether to ignore or do a deal.

However, in your case you are off the radar while you live in Cyprus so sending CCA Requests will put you firmly back on the radar, so my suggestion is to do nothing for the time being but post on this thread each and every time you get contacted.

You have both your Mum and UPS monitoring and dealing with any mail for you which arrives at her address. If things did get as far as potential legal proceedings the debt owner would have to send you a formal Letter of Claim which gives you 30 days to reply. So as long as your Mum makes sure mail is sent to you promptly you shouldn't be at risk of a CCJ behind your back at her address.

If/when you return to the UK you can reassess your strategy.

Do you want/need to be on the Electoral Roll at your Mum's address?

Di

[Roger]

Joanna Connolly ".. Another key consideration a creditor takes into place when considering whether to issue proceedings is whether you are a home owner or in job whereby with an attachment of earnings order they can obtained an increase in monthly payments etc. .."

Its a economic and purely business decision!
DCA's nor Banks - Creditors are Charities! Private businesses who either lend or trade in debts.

This is why your starting point should always be YOUR taking control over your money and affairs.
Considering your personal status:
Home owner singularly or shared or perhaps Renting
Job and Income
Whether your Credit Rating could be a serious problem in your Life. Vis Security Clearance! Mortgages etc..

AAD members will understand and can share their experiences with you.

You need a plan and strategy going forward if you are to take control of your Debts.
The AAD Diary format helps you and AAD share and understand specific Debts and issues.
So taking control of specific debts and whether these are Legally enforcible is a good starting position!

You will find that AAD are non judgmental on your decisions sic to pay, negotiate or seek to achieve 6 years Statute Bar.

BUT consider also whether the Creditor can frankly achieve anything by suing you! If you have No money, No property then you can't pay can you!
Not forgetting your health which itself may be a major consideration - you will find that medical reasons are a reason for debts being written off!

[Colin G Quinn]

Hi,

In terms of your own long terms plans for the three debts, I can't really advise you, as it is purely a personal choice. I usually get involved to help people who deny liability to a creditor and who are the victims of County Court Claims because of their denial, and I am usually successful in assisting those people in defending any Claim.

Whether or not you continue to maintain your payments is a decision only you can make and I suppose it comes down to; 1. Whether you can afford to keep making payments, 2. Whether the creditors are happy to let you make token payments at the rate you currently are, and, 3. Whether you admit you are liable to the creditors for the sums they say you owe.

Hopefully someone else on the forum can help you if it is your decision to try and come to a settlement arrangement in 6 months time, because I don't tend to get into settlement negotiations whereby a client of mine makes a payment to a creditor (it is usually the other way around), and so I'm not best placed to advise you of the best route to settlement.

In answer to your last question however, yes, whilst the other creditors are not contacting you, I would monitor the situation, but I wouldn't suggest you go out of your way to proactively contact them.

[a718671076]

Hi,

Making a payment does not run down the clock on the 6 year Limitation period.

Every time you make a payment the period is extended. So for instance, if you made a payment today, Intrum would have 6 years from today to issue a Claim. If your last payment was a year ago today, they would only have 5 years left to issue a Claim. I hope that makes sense.

I wouldn't send any correspondence, let alone a CCA request to a creditor who is not actively trying to contact you. As you say, that will likely only garner unwanted attention from them.

In respect of the calls, I'd suggest simply blocking the number if you don't want to be contacted.

So seeing as the 3 accounts I am making token payments on will not be SB, would the long term goal be to continue the payments say for another 6 months and then potentially see if I am in a position to offer a partial settlement of say between 30-50% of the debt? The same being true for the Capital one (as token payments are being made for this one also) a few months down the line if I can get some funds together?

Then leave the other debts until they contact me?

[Colin G Quinn]

Hi,

An Attachment of Earnings is an enforcement option to a creditor who has a Count Court Judgment against a consumer.

If the consumer chooses not to pay the Judgment debt, then a creditor can ask the Court to start the enforcement process. The consumer is first given the opportunity by the Court to fill in an income and expenditure, make an offer of payment and request that the enforcement action be suspended pending continued monthly repayments. The Court will look at the income and expenditure and, if they determine the offer to be reasonable (or if the offer is accepted by the creditor) they will suspend the enforcement and Order the consumer to make monthly payments.

If the consumer does not comply, then the creditor can ask the Court to make an Order that funds are to be deducted from the consumer's wages by their employer, and forwarded direct to the Court, who in turn disburse the sums to the creditor. That is known as a 'Full Attachment of Earnings'.

Although, the point is really moot here, as we aren't even at the stage of a Claim being suggested, let alone enforcement of a Judgment.

[a718671076]

I just googled "Attachment of Earnings" and it looks like this mainly affects child maintenance payments, so I don't think that should apply here.

[Colin G Quinn]

Hi,

Making a payment does not run down the clock on the 6 year Limitation period.

Every time you make a payment the period is extended. So for instance, if you made a payment today, Intrum would have 6 years from today to issue a Claim. If your last payment was a year ago today, they would only have 5 years left to issue a Claim. I hope that makes sense.

I wouldn't send any correspondence, let alone a CCA request to a creditor who is not actively trying to contact you. As you say, that will likely only garner unwanted attention from them.

In respect of the calls, I'd suggest simply blocking the number if you don't want to be contacted.

[a718671076]

Intrum are calling me literally about 5 times a day, I think I might just do the online from and try to get the payment setup for £1 and continue, try to run down the clock on the 6 years.

The £1 a month payments for C1 and Tesco I arranged myself.

I think you're right about the electoral roll, I guess when the bought the debt they just searched there for a known address.

In terms of the other debts when I move, would sending a CCA request potentially wake a sleeping giant? and I should just leave those as long as possible until they attempt to contact me?

Edit:
Sorry I missed the last 2 responses before posting as they were on a different page! How common is it that an attachment of earnings is asked for and obtained?

I would be happy to just keep sending the £1 payments to tesco and get them forwarded, the only issue is,without knowing an exact date for when I'll be back in the UK. I dont want any proceedings started without me as it will be super difficult to fight them.

[Joanna Connolly]

Another key consideration a creditor takes into place when considering whether to issue proceedings is whether you are a home owner or in job whereby with an attachment of earnings order they can obtained an increase in monthly payments etc.

[Colin G Quinn]

Hi again,

Just to expand on what has been said, and also something I missed out from my previous post;

A contract between one creditor for the alleged assignment of debts to another, generally contain a term that the original creditor undertakes to continue to forward any payments received. If it goes on for a while, you may get a letter from Tesco pleading with you to stop paying them. However, they still retain a duty to forward anything they receive.

In terms of whether or not Intrum are happy to let you continue to make token payments; Again, generally under an alleged assignment the assignee (Intrum in this case) agrees to accept any existing payment arrangement currently in place as at the date of the alleged assignment, for a period of 6 months only.

I obviously can't see that letter any more, but I recall seeing something to that effect said in one of the letters you put up. Albeit, I see so many Notices of Assignment on a daily basis and have had such a large influx of new cases I am instructed in recently, that I may be thinking of someone else's file.

The effect of that, is that Intrum may contact you in 6 months time and seek to coax you into 'upping' your monthly payment. There is really no way of knowing that at this stage as it is a future event yet to take place.

Obviously the actual date of alleged assignment is yet to be established owing to the discrepancy in the notices. So this may challenge the 6 month starting point.

In any event, I'd suggest you hold fire and await their next move which, if they have agreed to accept whatever payment is being made for 6 months, which will probably be the case, may not be until 6 months down the line and will likely be a 'hey, remember us' letter.

There is no urgency or need to panic at this stage...Just ask you mum to stay vigilant to new items of post!

[PlanB]

Seeing as I am already making token payments to Tesco, should I engage with them and attempt to set up the same repayment plan? Or just keep it going to tesco as I have to minimise contact.

I saw both of your letters and it seems Intrum is happy to let you carry on making a £1 token payment so I doubt they'll 'go legal' as long as that arrangement continues.

The decision you need to make is whether:

(a) you carry on paying Tesco who might carry on forwarding the £1 to Intrum, which it seems they've been doing despite the 'assignment' over eighteen months ago. Their letter made that clear (that they've been forwarding your payment).

(b) or do you 'out' yourself to Intrum and make the payments direct using their online portal (as referred to in that letter) without the need for any human contact by phone or letter.

(c) and/or do your make Intrum aware that you are currently living in Cyprus, which is a decision I can't make for you since I have only seen limited information.

You've said that you are on the Electoral Roll at your Mum's place which is something that is refreshed every year (at least my Local Authority send me an update form/online confirmation). If your Electoral Roll status is showing on your CRA file then Intrum might be forgiven for assuming you are in the UK at that address which is why they sent the correspondence there. Especially since the Tesco 'assignment' letter (with the Cyprus address on it) is so old, Intrum might think you've moved back to the UK from Cyprus in the meantime.

This debt won't become Statute Barred for another six years after your last payment. All of your debts have been Defaulted in 2017/2018 so they will fall off your CRA file six years from those dates (the whole account history vanishes).

You've said you will be returning to the UK in the coming months when you will need to make a new decision of what to tell to whom and when. That might be the time to send the CCA Requests as and when people catch up with you (you're not making token payments to all of them are you?) .

While you mull over the pros and cons of the long term situation, consider whether paying £1 per month is a small price to pay for the peace and quiet because SB status is six years away.

Finally, you've proved your mail redirection is working using UPS so why not wait to see what Intrum send next.

Have the phone calls to your mobile stopped?

Di

[Colin G Quinn]

Hi,

It would be a waste of your time engaging with Tesco, as they will only say they have no interest in the matter owing to the alleged (and I stress the word alleged) assignment. Are you making payments direct to Tesco or via Stepchange or another debt advisor etc?

A Claim can still be issued regardless of whether you are making payments and regardless of who to. A creditor's right to issue a Claim arises after they have served you with a compliant Default Notice, and after the deadline for payment of the arrears demanded under the Default Notice passes, absent payment of the said arrears. Beyond that point they have 6 years to issue.

The issue of a Default Notice isn't really something you want to get into at this stage. Service and expiry of a compliant Default Notice is an essential part of any Claim, as opposed to any Defence of yours. In other words, its for the creditor to prove without doubt.

The two letters, dated so drastically differently, being placed in one envelope is curious to say the least. It may be that there has been a prior alleged assigned to the alleged assignment to Intrum.

In any event, there is nothing to worry about in terms of a Claim at this stage. Service of a Notice of Assignment (alleged) is the first step in their attempts to coax you into paying them. I think I highlighted on a different thread recently that Intrum, generally in the cases in which I am instructed, tend to have a quite protracted pre-action (pre-Claim) process.

You will likely continue to have them write to your mum's address numerous times over the next few months. They will not be in any rush to issue, as every time you make a payment the 6 year period for them to issue a Claim is continually extended.

The decision you need to make is whether you admit any liability to Intrum absent any evidence of, amongst many other things, the alleged assignment. That will ultimately determine whether or not you want to carry on making payments. I cannot advise you on that issue, it is a matter of personal preference. I can only advise you of the likely outcomes of either continuing to make payments, or if payments were to cease.