Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

[SA Gold]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

Hi PlanB,

Agreed. She goes back to the "i wouldn't expect on a basic survey". Why do they use this as an excuse when its listed as being checked. The name of the survey is irrelevant for goodness sake.

As for the date the pictures were taken. This is a poor excuse. Of course the photo's i have are going to be a later date than the surveyor - he was there to check the property prior to my purchase and therefore having keys and access to the loft.

The camera didn't have the time stamp on the image, although there is a time-stamp on the image from within Windows.

I will work on a reply to say, yes we do want to to appeal and post back. Be great if you could give it the once over for me.

Really cheesed off them with them as its clearly a one-sided thing going on here.

Cheers

SA

[SA Gold]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

Morning,
What do you think about this for a first draft?

Dear.....

Thank you for your email. I am disappointed with your response and would like an Ombudsman to review the case and would like to include the comments below if i may.

I don't believe you asked me for a date the photo's were taken? The date was 2nd January.

I fail to see why the name of the survey is relevant.
The Inspection Checklist included an inspection of the roof voids. This is the basis of my complaint. You say "you would only expect a fairly basic inspection". I didn't make any assumptions about what to expect - i used the checklist to decide which inspection to purchase before making the biggest financial commitment in my life.

You conclude "Colleys was not required to do anymore than it had on the basic valuation". If i were to pursue Halifax through the courts i understand i would be asking for a statement of truth which should clarify when the checklist had been carried out.

Yours faithfully,

[PlanB]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

You've been given until 14th October to respond so no rush to get this next letter finalized. I feel her main argument all along has been that the survey was being carried out for the purpose of the lender and not for you, so it didn't matter if the surveyor f*cked up or not. As I have said before if that were to be the case then why were you sent a copy? I need to go back to read that report they sent you because from memory it positively invites you to take notice and react to the content.

I think your point about not needing to make assumptions of what would be included because you relied on the surveyor's website checklist is excellent. What a pity she can't see that too

You say the pictures were taken on 2nd January, can you say what date the surveyor carried out the survey? The distance between those two dates would be relevant if she's suggesting that the property could have deteriorated between the two events so the surveyor may not have seen what you photographed. Out of pure curiosity, why did you take those photos?

[SA Gold]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

Hi PlanB,

Sorry for the slow reply. Really busy with the house at the moment; hoping to move in next couple of weeks!

I feel her main argument all along has been that the survey was being carried out for the purpose of the lender and not for you

That's exactly how i feel along with the annoying "i wouldn't expect ... on a valuation"

Can you say what date the surveyor carried out the survey?

6th November

Out of pure curiosity, why did you take those photos?

I took them to send to Halifax when i complained.



Would be great if you did have chance to review before i reply.

Many thanks

SA

[PlanB]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

6th November. I took them to send to Halifax when i complained.

This could be the weak link in the chain if you were to go to court. You took the photos two months after the surveyor's inspection. The winter of 2012/13 is one of the wettest on record. I would guess that the surveyor would argue that it wasn't in that (visible) condition when he visited. Whether that's true or not is not the point. It's what a DJ would believe. The property was undeniably left empty between November 2012 and February 2013 (when you took those photos) with no heating and no monitoring of any degenerating condition.

You still haven't moved into the property nearly a year after purchasing it. This also suggests the property was in an uninhabitable condition when you agreed to buy it. Where are the FOS writing to you? Do they know you've not moved into the property? Do they know why you've not moved into the property?

On a brighter note none of this detracts from the point that the survey didn't include what it said it would include. And the report to HBOS.


Of course I'll review your letter to the FOS but the photos may not be relevant anymore.

[SA Gold]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

hi PlanB. Thanks for posting.

Where are the FOS writing to you?

Via email, although we have provided the purchased property address for paper based letters.

Do they know you've not moved into the property? Do they know why you've not moved into the property?

No, this has never been mentioned.

On a brighter note none of this detracts from the point that the survey didn't include what it said it would include. And the report to HBOS.

Agreed.

Of course I'll review your letter to the FOS but the photos may not be relevant anymore.

Thanks PlanB. I appreciate you say the photos may no longer be relevant although i've left the comment in because i find it strange she has used it as part of her conclusion although never asked for the dates (as far as i can recall).

Dear.....

Thank you for your email. I am disappointed with your response and would like an Ombudsman to review the case and would like to include the comments below if i may.

I don't believe you asked me for a date the photo's were taken? The date was 2nd January.

I fail to see why the name of the survey is relevant.
The Inspection Checklist included an inspection of the roof voids. This is the basis of my complaint. You say "you would only expect a fairly basic inspection". I didn't make any assumptions about what to expect - i used the checklist to decide which inspection to purchase before making the biggest financial commitment in my life.

You conclude "Colleys was not required to do anymore than it had on the basic valuation". If i were to pursue Halifax through the courts i understand i would be asking for a statement of truth which should clarify when the checklist had been carried out.

Yours faithfully,

[SA Gold]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

Hiya,
Any suggestions on if the above is OK to send (deadline Monday 14th)

Thanks
SA

[PlanB]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

1. Add in a sentence to say you challenge her view that the survey was only for the lender's benefit because it was sent to you too. I should say that this would be routine so that you can see for yourself if a surveyor had 'down-valued' it. Out of interest was the valuation exactly the same as the agreed sale price? And you said somewhere that you had got the asking price reduced. Was that before or after Halifax sent you this report?

2. When you declare the date your photos were taken maybe add "which was soon after the survey" (although that's not strictly true she may not bother to look at the date on the survey) and nothing had changed since his visit. Most, in fact all, surveyors take photos of their own when on site. Did you ever see these or have you ever asked for them? If the FOS didn't ask for them you can claim they've failed to investigate the matter properly since she specifically asked you to provide your photos as evidence but didn't ask Colleys for theirs (if that's true). Even if she did ask Colleys (which I bet she didn't) then you should have been sent Colley's photos for your comments. How can she assume that the surveyor wouldn't have easily seen the defects shown in your photos if the surveyor hasn't offered up any of his own to disprove you?

This point could be seen as a good reason to ask an Ombudsman to do a better job than the Adjudicator. It's always useful to have something extra (new information) to add when you escalate a complaint otherwise they just treat it as a review of whether the underling got it right/wrong first time around and tend to side with their colleagues. Give them something new to think about

[SA Gold]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

Hi Plan B,

Thanks for posting.

The surveyors value was the price we offered.

We offered five thousand less than the asking price and this was accepted. We then engaged with Halifax for the mortgage. The survey had no effect on the price we paid for it.

I was thinking of replying with this tomorrow (Monday) lunch time.

Dear....

Thank you for your email. I am disappointed with your response and would like to take your offer for an Ombudsman to review the case. I would like to include the comments below if i may.

I fail to see why the name of the survey is relevant.
The Checklist included an inspection of the roof voids. This is the basis of my complaint. You say "you would only expect a fairly basic inspection". I didn't make any assumptions about what to expect - i used the checklist to decide which inspection to purchase before making the biggest financial commitment in my life.
You state the survey was soley for the lenders benefit although a copy was sent to me. Do Halifax send documents for internal use to all their clients?

I don't believe you asked me for a date the photo's were taken? The photos were taken shortly after the survey was carried out and nothing had changed since the visit. Can i see a copy of the photos you requested from Colleys from the roof void area? I assume you have compared the photos from Colleys with mine?

Yours faithfully,

[PlanB]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

Very good idea to end with a question. You've subtly pointed out her failings. Send it off

When you hear back that it's been allocated to an Ombudsman we'll try to come up with one more thing to add in which will give him/her the excuse to overrule the adjudicator without her losing face. When a case is referred to an Ombudsman it's the adjudicator who prepares the file which is when they like to have the last word. So wait till it lands on an Ombudsman desk and then you can have your last word too.

[SA Gold]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

Very good idea to end with a question. You've subtly pointed out her failings. Send it off

Excellent, thanks PlanB.
So, 8/10 and i don't need to come back to see you after school?

Thanks for your help.

SA

[SA Gold]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

Reply from the FOS already. Sounds like they ain't happy!

********************

Dear

Thank you for your email and your comments.

I understand you have said you chose the basic valuation based on the checklist provided by Colleys' website. And I appreciate you have shown to me that a 'roof void inspection' is included in this. But what I am trying to explain is that whilst the basic valuation includes various aspects, the purpose of the report is to only highlight any items which could materially affect the value of the property, to the lender.

As I said in my letter, the valuation report will help the lender decide if it is happy to secure its lending on the property. In your case, the valuation report concluded the property was acceptable for lending purposes. It notes that maintenace, repairs or updgrading would be required. Halifax was happy to lend based on this. The report did not need to specify or suggest to you what these required repairs should be - because the valuation is not for your purposes. If you wanted a report to help you make a decision on whether to go ahead with it, or to highlight the urgency of these repairs for your information purposes, then you had the option to request a survey from Colleys. Information on this is also included on the same website.

I have looked at the Colleys website and it does clarify that the basic valuation is a brief report which includes its assessment of the value of the propert...A valuation doesn't involve a survey of the property… It is not a survey and may not contain important information regarding the condition of the property.

I can see the valuation report you received also explains that you still had the option to request a more detailed report and it would be pleased to help you with this. So if you had any worries about the defects you saw, then it would have been in your own interests to have brought this up at the time as a specific issue. And I can't see that you did.

As a courtesy, the lender would usually send a copy of the valuation to the borrower.

I hope this provides more clarify on why I reached my view. I'm happy to put your complaint forward for an ombudsman's final decision if this is what you would like, so please let me know.

Yours sincerely

************

Proposed reply from AAD Apprentice:

Dear .........,

Thank you for your email.

I feel the crux of my complaint is being missed and would like you to refer my case to the Ombudsman.

I selected and paid the fee for a check of which the content was listed on the Colleys public facing website. As i said in a previous email to you; why would i order a further survey, inspection - call it what you will when nothing was highlighted on the first inspection?

I feel you have also contradicted yourself by stating "you still had the option to request a more detailed report and it would be pleased to help you with this" - why would they offer this if the initial report was for internal use only?

Yours faithfully,

[PlanB]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

Reply from the FOS already.

I understand you have said you chose the basic valuation based on . . . . . . . . . So if you had any worries about . . . . . . I hope this provides more clarify on why I reached my view.

I'm happy to put your complaint forward for an ombudsman's final decision if this is what you would like, so please let me know.

Which part of this statement in your email to her "I would like to take you up on your offer for an Ombudsman to review the case" does she not understand

No mention of the surveyor's photos. I reckon that's what made her deliver her rapid response.

I'll pop in again tomorrow to help you compose your one-liner response. She's had her chance. Time to escalate your complaint to someone with a bit of lateral thinking. No need to argue with her anymore. She just keeps repeating herself.

[SA Gold]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

Which part of this statement in your email to her "I would like to take you up on your offer for an Ombudsman to review the case" does she not understand

Yep. I guess the person dealing with this has to walk the plank for not resolving it?

No mention of the surveyor's photos. I reckon that's what made her deliver her rapid response.

I think you are spot on PlanB. I feel she made her mind up from day one with "i wouldn't expect a basic..... nonsense"

I'll pop in again tomorrow to help you compose your one-liner response. She's had her chance. Time to escalate your complaint to someone with a bit of lateral thinking. No need to argue with her anymore. She just keeps repeating herself.

I do hope you dont think i was being inpatient but i replied with the above earlier on. I was unsure how all this works and although i stated in the orginal email today i wanted an Obudsman to review; i wasn't sure if not replying to the (riduculous) reply before close of business today would have been the end of the road. Hope i've made the right decision.

Kind regards,

SA

[PlanB]

Re: Getting no-where with Halifax mortgage complaint

I do hope you dont think i was being inpatient but i replied with the above earlier on.

Good. The quicker you get your complaint off that annoying woman's desk the better.

The biggest flaw in the FOS system is the adjudicators have too much personal input into their decisions. They express opinions rather than factual assessments based on the evidence. Their reports are always waffle to justify their stance. Because they make them personal they take it personally when you don't agree, and then dig their heels in.

Your letter is fine. Later on you can tell the Ombudsman that your photographs were dismissed because they weren't date specific but the adjudicator never asked you for the date. And they were also dismissed without cross-checking the condition of the property with the surveyor's photographs. One of your arguments was that the surveyor couldn't have failed to see the roof problem and should have included it in his report with a recommendation for further investigation (another survey) if appropriate.

If this were in court you would have asked to see the surveyor's original notes (or transcript of his dictaphone-type tape).

Call the FOS and ask them to tell you when your complaint reaches an Ombudsman because you will have some more research to add before he/she makes the final Decision. I'm not sure what but we'll think of something.